E&OE…
Topics: CSIRO, Macquarie Island, Backpacker Tax
LEON COMPTON:
Let's talk about the CSIRO and its future now. Amid the latest stoush over the future of ongoing scientific research on Macquarie Island south of Hobart, which the Federal Government has now assured is sound. It's easier to forget an earlier international outrage at planned changes to the CSIRO announced over the latter part of last year and this year. You'd recall the widespread anger, the concern about planned internal changes within CSIRO that would have cost jobs and programs in Tasmania, particularly in climate science research. At the time, then Federal Science Minister Christopher Pyne was at pains to reiterate the changes were a matter for the CSIRO, its management and its board.
Well, Australia's new Science Minister Greg Hunt doesn't seem to be so hands off. He's given a major speech last night at the CSIRO gala dinner in Melbourne, and he joins us now.
Greg Hunt, good morning to you.
GREG HUNT:
And good morning Leon.
LEON COMPTON:
Thank you for talking the time this morning. You've used your speech last night to reiterate a commitment to the CSIRO as a world leading public research institution. Was that in doubt given the organisation's conduct and choices over the past six months?
GREG HUNT:
Look I think the question was always, can we be better? The CSIRO is now a hundred years old, it's got an amazing history whether it's the vaccine for the Hendra virus, whether it's the work on ultrasound or of course Wi-Fi, and then work on feeding literally millions and millions of people. It's an outstanding organisation, but I think, and talking with the board and senior management, it can be even better, it can be the world's premier research organisation.
That's a ten year task, to be the premier public research organisation, but it won't happen unless you set the goal and now I want to work with the whole of CSIRO to have that really common purpose to lift it to an even higher level.
LEON COMPTON:
Have you decided to be more hands on as a minister in terms of making sure that you're comfortable with the directions, the choices that senior management make?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I won't speak for other ministers. My approach and my style has been to be very engaged with organisations, and that's because I think it's how I want to approach it, to engage directly. I'm meeting, you know, across all the different arms of the Industry, Innovation and Science portfolio, with not just the department but with the different agencies and in particular wanting to meet with people throughout the organisation. Younger grads and mid-level scientists and researchers. And, you pick up ideas, you find out any flaws, and you build a common purpose. And this common vision of being the world's premier public research organisation. Some may say it's too ambitious but I think we can do it.
LEON COMPTON:
I suppose the question I'm asking is, will you be more hands on than your predecessor, Christopher Pyne, who felt that it was for CSIRO to decide on its priorities? Will you be more hands on?
GREG HUNT:
Well as I say I won't make a comparison. What I will do is set the standard for myself, and that is I believe it's my role and I enjoy immensely being deeply engaged, and whether it's working with the board, the senior management, but in particular the scientists and the researchers. We announced last night six future science platforms, so what some call blue sky science. And they've come from within the organisation itself and I was very keen to make sure that they were the ideas of those that are working on the Square Kilometre Array, on soil carbons, on nano materials identified. The next big wave of future science.
LEON COMPTON:
You also emphasized in your talk yesterday the importance of long term climate science.
GREG HUNT:
Correct.
LEON COMPTON:
What does that mean for the climate science that is, well, being mucked around by different positions that the Government and CSIRO management have taken over the past six months? What does it mean for the future of that climate research and its role in Tasmania?
GREG HUNT:
So there's a long term commitment to two things. One is climate science, and climate science is pure climate science research and in particular the development of a decadal forecasting capability. The UK Met Office is incredibly good at it. We're not as strong in Australia and that's something that I want to see developed in conjunction with CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorology. And secondly, it's engaged and involved with the mitigation and adaptation work. What's that mean for listeners? It means reducing emissions and also responding to any consequences of climate change. Going forward, Hobart will be the centre for the national climate change research centre.
So, Hobart will be right at the forefront and that will bring together researchers from not just the CSIRO but the Bureau of Meteorology, our universities, and, I'm also hopeful that we'll be able to have secondments from places such as the UK Met Office.
We'll be developing this long term decadal forecasting capability. As I say, we're good, but the UK is the benchmark and so we want to work with and learn from them.
LEON COMPTON:
Over the last seven days in Tasmania, people have been looking on, well some in horror as the announcement was made to close our winter operations on Macquarie Island. Subsequently those operations have been announced as continuing. Have you had a hand in actually deciding that the Australian Antarctic Division would be reversed?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I've obviously spoken with Josh Frydenberg, my successor as Environment Minister. This was a decision that was taken at the bureaucratic level. I know that Josh looked at it, spoke with different departments, spoke with the Premier and spoke with Eric Abetz, but in particular talked with the Bureau of Meteorology. He came to the conclusion that it should and it could be preserved in terms of the long term Macquarie Island presence. He is now working on finding resources, but Josh himself overturned the decision, made the choice on his watch that we would be there for the long term, and I was really delighted at the outcome.
LEON COMPTON:
Can you understand that there might be some concern in the broader community at the moment about the management of our scientific institutions? We've got the Australian Antarctic Division making a decision, reversing it days later. We've got the CSIRO's head Larry Marshall saying that the climate science has been settled, we're moving on now, we're back into it and looking to lead the world. Can you understand there are concerns about the future of our scientific institutions and the quality of their longer term decision making?
GREG HUNT:
I respect the views of everybody in this space. The interesting thing is, both in terms of the CSIRO core climate science research, and Macquarie Island, it was Coalition federal ministers who changed decisions that were taken at a bureaucratic level.
LEON COMPTON:
But wasn't that a response – isn't that a response, Minister?
GREG HUNT:
A reverse is now is offered.
LEON COMPTON:
Isn't that a response to the fact that these organisations are buckling under budget cuts and not just imposed by your government but predecessors as well. They're buckling under budget cuts and they make poor, weird, bad decisions in response, because that's where they feel it's come to.
GREG HUNT:
Well I'd say this, that over the next few years, over what's called the forward estimates, the period of the budget, I actually committed last night, and reaffirmed that what we'll see is an increase in the annual appropriation, or the annual budget for CSIRO, when you take everything into account, of over $100 million a year between 2016 and 2019. So that's quite different to some of the presentations.
It's a significant growth, and we'll also see 200 additional full time staff added over more than 200 full time staff added over that period, and just this year the annual R&D, or research and development budget goes up by well over $300 million, or 3.55 per cent. So it's now at $10 billion, so really significant increases.
I think it's important to actually lay them out, but it's fair enough for you to ask the questions, but I know that both Josh and I have stepped in, made decisions, and each of them has actually been reaffirming the importance of pure public good research, pure climate science research, and that's our job as ministers.
LEON COMPTON:
I'm just trying to, and excuse my ignorance, I'm just trying to work out where the punctuation comes in, the title Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science.
LEON COMPTON:
If it's industry, can I ask you a question about the backpacker tax? Are you involved?
GREG HUNT:
You can ask, yes. I'm not the responsible minister, but I'm happy to do my best.
LEON COMPTON:
It's people in Tasmania, particularly those that require their fruit to be picked by backpackers in a few months' time have their head in their hands wondering what your government is doing at the moment in terms of a backpacker tax, that is, we believe, impacting on the availability of workers, and hasn't been resolved. Are you aware of the consequences for industry in Tasmania that that choice or non-choice is making at the moment?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I absolutely am aware. I know that Scott Morrison's working on this very quickly. I would expect there'll be a resolution in the near term. I do think we have to step back on one front. Sometimes there's a pretence that we don't have a national budget challenge – we do. And the reason this matters is because every dollar that is spent in excess of what we earn now is a dollar that will not only have to be paid back by our children and our grandchildren, but interest on that dollar will have to be paid, potentially for decades. And so that's why across the board it's our responsibility to try to make sure that we live within our means. That really matters. It matter to firms, it matters to the ABC, it matters to individual families and to businesses. So that's the context.
Now having said that, I expect that Scott Morrison will reach a landing on this in the very near future. He's approaching it in a flexible manner, protecting the budget task whilst also trying to ensure that there is rapid certainty for those in the agricultural sector.
LEON COMPTON:
Greg Hunt, appreciate you talking with us this morning.
GREG HUNT:
Thanks Leon.
(ENDS)