E&OE…
Topics: New funding for childhood cancer; new medication for short bowel syndrome; new initiatives for regional healthcare access; children’s anxiety over climate change; Australia’s emissions; Plastics in the ocean; Vaping; ACT cannabis legislation, W.A assisted dying; Liberal Party spill books; Frydenberg, Liu court of disputed returns.
JON FAINE:
Greg Hunt is the Minister of Federal Parliament representing the seat of Flinders down around Phillip Island and the Victorian coast. He’s also the Minister for Health in the Scott Morrison mark two Federal Government. Greg Hunt, good morning to you.
GREG HUNT:
And good morning Jon.
JON FAINE:
Inaugural Childhood Brain Cancer Awareness Day is the title of your press release. The details buried inside show $5 million in additional funding for research into childhood cancer. That’s a very small – childhood cancer, brain cancer – a very small part of a much bigger picture though.
GREG HUNT:
Well it is. As we know, childhood brain cancer affects about 100 children a year and 36 are likely to lose their lives, and I was just talking to a dad before we came on air who’s in hospital taking care of his very ill little daughter.
And so we’re adding $5 million for clinical trials, which is testing of breakthrough new medicines. But it’s part of a broad $125 million brain cancer programme.
So these are some of the things that in this role you have the privilege of working on and bringing forward. Agonising conditions, but in many cases for the first time there’s real hope and real change.
One of the conditions, DIPG, some families will be aware of it.
It has a less than 10 per cent survival rate. And right now there are new trials going on that will give families hope even at Walter and Eliza Hall Institute here in Melbourne.
JON FAINE:
These are big gambles, though, that you’re talking about. Some of these pharmaceuticals cost tens, even hundreds of thousands of dollars and don’t always work.
GREG HUNT:
That’s true. And that’s one of the great balancing tasks that this role has.
We only a couple of days ago approved and announced a medicine of $284,000 for what’s called short bowel syndrome. It can be an agonising condition, but access to a medicine such as that will change people’s lives.
And then Victoria, through Peter Mac and the Royal Children’s Hospital, will be one of the world leaders for what’s called CAR-T therapy, one of the breakthrough new cancer therapies for leukaemia and lymphoma.
That’s $0.5 million a person and it’s saving lives and it makes a massive difference. But it won’t always work. So these are the great challenges that science brings us, the possibility of saving lives but it won’t always deliver the outcome we hope for.
JON FAINE:
One of the big issues that’s raised over and over again is the gap between services for people in the cities and services for people in regional Australia, who very much feel left out and they have to travel sometimes vast distances to get what people in the cities take for granted.
Is there anything you can do about that?
GREG HUNT:
Yes, look, I think the point you make is absolutely real. That’s why we’ve got two big programmes that we’re initiating.
One is $100 million for regional access to clinical trials. So these breakthrough new medicines, instead of doing exactly what you set out, being able to get that treatment in the area where people are living can make a massive difference.
I was in the towns of Kimba and Cadena in South Australia recently. They’re early candidates to be part of this sort of program.
The second is regional radiotherapy. So instead of the medicines, you’re having radiation therapy from oncology and that – we’re investing just over $63 million to have 13 regional sites around Australia.
JON FAINE:
Do you agree with our Prime Minister Scott Morrison that children shouldn’t suffer needless anxiety in inverted commas over climate change?
GREG HUNT:
I think the point that he’s making and I do agree is that it’s very important to address climate change but to allow people to have a sense of optimism about the future.
JON FAINE:
Why?
GREG HUNT:
I think it’s very important…
JON FAINE:
They’ve just held a funeral for a glacier in the Swiss Alps because it’s disappeared in their lifetimes.
GREG HUNT:
I think- and I remain more optimistic than some in this space…
JON FAINE:
Why?
GREG HUNT:
Having lived and breathed environment over many, many years. What I can see is that although there are great challenges, in the end my belief is that the world will address this problem and that we’ll be able to- we can see the actions…
JON FAINE:
The world will address or the world must now address?
GREG HUNT:
No, we’ll be able to address. We are taking steps as a globe. For example, Australia of all the countries in the world has the highest per capita investment in renewables.
Of all the countries in the world we are one of the few that not only met our 2012, is meeting our 2020, and will meet our 2030 targets.
But globally, my belief is that there are deep significant challenges but that progressively over time with the combination of technology, reforestation which is a hugely important part of it, avoided deforestation, the switch to different forms of energy which will not have an impact on the environment…
JON FAINE:
Why are we opening a new- why are we opening new coal mines?
GREG HUNT:
We will address successfully the problem.
JON FAINE:
Why are we allowing more coal mines in the Galilee Basin?
GREG HUNT:
It’s all part of a global balance and ultimately, of course, one of the great hopes over centuries was that the people who lived in poverty would have access to different forms of activity which would take them out this last century. It’s been about electricity…
JON FAINE:
I asked you about coal? How’s that good, that they have access to coal?
GREG HUNT:
Well, electricity is an important part of the ability for people to live the lives that you and I lead, to have access to…
JON FAINE:
So let’s help them access renewables. They’re not short of sunlight in India or China.
GREG HUNT:
Oh, India is growing on all different fronts. But of course…
JON FAINE:
So unless we- unless we stop- I mean, you wouldn’t allow us to supply something- you wouldn’t allow us to export asbestos. So why are we exporting coal?
GREG HUNT:
What is this studio being run on?
JON FAINE:
This studio at the moment is being run on coal but it needs to, and we all need to, address the fact that that’s not sustainable. We are the most polluting people on earth, aren’t you?
You and I, we are the most polluting people- individually, we are amongst the greatest polluters on earth.
GREG HUNT:
Well, what you see is that the emissions per capita have plummeted dramatically in Australia.
JON FAINE:
Not plummeted, they’ve just tapered off a little bit.
GREG HUNT:
No, (inaudible) what we’ve had is a…
JON FAINE:
I have the chart here in front of me.
GREG HUNT:
Yeah, and the emissions per capita have dropped dramatically. Australia’s emissions…
JON FAINE:
We’ve very slightly gone down, but you and I, you and I and (inaudible), we are the most emitting polluters. Our community, we contribute more per head of population than almost anyone else on the globe. We must address that, surely, if we want things to change.
GREG HUNT:
So, on our watch, in our time, coming from where we were, what we see is that in 2005 Australia had very high emissions. We have significantly reduced our emissions since then. The per capita emissions reductions have dropped dramatically and we will continue to do that (inaudible)…
JON FAINE:
So you don’t have a sense of urgency about this?
GREG HUNT:
No, I do have a sense of urgency, which is why…
JON FAINE:
It’s not on display. We’re not seeing it.
GREG HUNT:
No. With great respect, that’s exactly why in my time we took what is a -5 per cent target and turned it into a -26 to -28 per cent target.
And you know what? Of all the countries in the world, we’re one of the few that will meet and beat all three of our 2012, 2020 and 2030 targets. And that’s an immensely important thing to do.
JON FAINE:
And that’s because they’ve been so much watered down. Scott Morrison is talking about plastics in the ocean. Anything, let’s talk about anything as long as we don’t talk about coal, which seemed to be your government’s position.
GREG HUNT:
Wrong. And the reason I say that is very clear. Because in his speech to the UN last night he addressed three principle global environmental challenges.
He addressed the pollution and protection of our oceans, he addressed overfishing and he addressed climate change directly in an extended way. And all of these things are the areas where we have to work. And of all of the nations …
JON FAINE:
What did he say about coal?
GREG HUNT:
Ahh…
JON FAINE:
Nothing.
GREG HUNT:
What he talked about was climate change, and…
JON FAINE:
Nothing.
GREG HUNT:
Can I take you on directly and respectfully but categorically disagree? What this is about is the net balance of emissions. What the planet knows is the total volume of CO2 in the air. It’s a combination of what goes up and what comes down and that is the critical thing.
And what we’re doing – in a way that few other countries are doing – is actually meeting and beating all of those goals and addressing that outcome.
JON FAINE:
Couple of other things. The latest research coming out of the United States suggests that vaping is actually just as – well, maybe not as dangerous as tobacco – but certainly by no means is it harmless. It’s not illegal in Australia, and you see people walking around the streets vaping.
Are you in any way questioning the safety of vaping in Australia?
GREG HUNT:
Absolutely, and there are two different things here. There’s nicotine, and what I have done is refuse all attempts to change the law in Australia.
And so in America we’ve seen now the latest advice from the FDA – the Food and Drug Administration – is that there’s an epidemic of addiction, and we’ve had the big tobacco companies attempting to bring this into Australia.
And on our watch, in our time, we have said no. So 3.6 million high school and middle school kids in America who are vaping, they’ve had a 78 per cent increase in high school kids in a 12-month period. And we have said no.
And that for me is a fundamental point and it may be the most important thing I do as Health Minister, is not to allow this nicotine into Australia, because it’s- there’s both dangers with vaping in and of itself. I think the latest figures I’ve seen just this morning, 11 directly attributable deaths to the vaping.
But it’s also a massive onramp for cigarette smoking.
JON FAINE:
But non-nicotine vaping is now being also questioned and the suggestion is that the ingestion of even the non-nicotine products into the lungs is harmful.
GREG HUNT:
And that’s exactly why we’ve commissioned the ANU School of Epidemiology to do this review. And so I am looking forward to their analysis there. They’re tough, and they’ll provide the analysis in the coming months.
JON FAINE:
The Commonwealth has the power to override laws that have been passed by the Northern Territory and the ACT, because they are territories, not states.
You’ve used those laws occasionally in the past. You’ve used that power. The ACT have just changed the laws about personal growth, personal use, personal possession of marijuana. Would you overrule them?
GREG HUNT:
So I’ll leave that for the Attorney-General, there are no plans at this stage is as much as I understand on the legal side. On the health side, I am very concerned.
We know that, for example, the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the UK has directly linked marijuana use to psychiatric conditions, such as schizophrenia. I think they say that there’s a double the likelihood of schizophrenia with frequent users of marijuana, and quadruple the likelihood for people who start before the age of 15 and use it.
So it’s a very significant mental health risk. I think that the ACT has not taken these factors into account, and that’s why one in four of people who are in drug and alcohol rehabilitation in Australia have cannabis as one of the sources of their problems.
JON FAINE:
So it concerns you but you won’t overrule or override the legislation?
GREG HUNT:
So the concern is absolute about the health impacts. At this stage there are no plans to override it.
JON FAINE:
What about the West Australian Parliament now following the Victorian example on voluntary assisted dying? Do you support the gradual rolling out of those laws around Australia?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I respect that there are very, very different views on this across the country. Personally, I don’t support it. I’ve given it a great deal of thought but it’s one of those cases where my belief is that it should be determined at the state level.
JON FAINE:
So just leave it alone?
GREG HUNT:
Yep. I think that’s one for the states even though personally, I have a different view because I think we have a much stronger role in terms of palliative care to play but I recognise that many people have different views on this.
JON FAINE:
Twelve minutes to nine. I’ve only got a few more minutes. I’m not sure if you’ve had a chance given your frantic schedule, Minister, to read either of two books that have been published so far about the rolling of Malcolm Turnbull and the installation of Scott Morrison instead of Peter Dutton.
GREG HUNT:
No. I haven’t.
JON FAINE:
You haven’t read Niki Savva or David Crowe’s books?
GREG HUNT:
Neither of the above.
JON FAINE:
You feature heavily in each of them.
GREG HUNT:
Well that’s nice.
JON FAINE:
Do you in what sort of terms you are described?
GREG HUNT:
I suspect it will be a historical review from whoever was briefing it but you know what? My view is that…
JON FAINE:
It’s very unflattering needless to say.
GREG HUNT:
Oh look, it comes with the territory. My view is that…
JON FAINE:
I think the words treacherous, dishonest…
GREG HUNT:
In the last 50 years, we are probably set for the most stable term of government in that period of time at federal level. If you have a look at the cabinet now…
JON FAINE:
But doesn’t it hurt you…
GREG HUNT:
If you have a look at the leadership group…
JON FAINE:
I know what you’re going to say; everyone listening does too…
GREG HUNT:
No, no. It’s as unified as it has been…
JON FAINE:
Does it not…
GREG HUNT:
In half a century.
JON FAINE:
Does it not hurt a professional politician who has served in so many different capacities to be publicly described not in one but in two different books as treacherous, hypocritical, dishonest?
GREG HUNT:
You know what, Jon?
JON FAINE:
Doesn’t that – doesn’t any of that pierce your skin?
GREG HUNT:
Do you get fussed by what you read on Twitter?
JON FAINE:
I don’t read Twitter anymore actually.
GREG HUNT:
Why’s that?
JON FAINE:
Because it’s just such toxic rubbish. I don’t bother with it.
GREG HUNT:
Exactly the same. That’s exactly the same.
JON FAINE:
You think these books are toxic rubbish?
GREG HUNT:
No. I just don’t get fussed about what other people write. I did have one report which I knew was completely bogus. Somebody told me that there was a reflection that, you know, my great friend Josh Frydenberg and I were at odds.
In fact, we’ve never been closer and I say that he’s godfather to my little daughter – or not so little anymore, she’s 14 – I’m godfather to his daughter. We catch up, we talk and I thought, you know, that was never even tested by the journalist.
It was false, it was untrue, it was incorrect and I thought, why would I waste my time with something where it wasn’t checked and it wasn’t even remotely close to the truth; it was diametrically the opposite of the truth.
So do I fuss about those things? Do you read Twitter? No and no. And you know why? Because every day in this portfolio, you’re actually dealing with people’s lives; they are the things that matter.
JON FAINE:
Sure, they certainly are.
GREG HUNT:
And that’s how – you know, with limited time, that’s how I spend my time and hopefully that’s how most people spend their time focusing on the things that are real and important and significant and weighty.
JON FAINE:
Josh Frydenberg is facing a court of disputed returns application in relation to his election and even if he loses that Court of Disputed Returns there’ll be a by-election, he’ll romp it in in Kooyong.
But Gladys Liu is also facing a Court of Disputed Returns challenge and if she loses, are you going to run her as the candidate again if there’s a by-election?
GREG HUNT:
Well I won’t speculate on the court decisions but we’re very committed to Gladys and she’s very committed to the people of Chisholm and I think she’s been a fantastic…
JON FAINE:
She’s a great fundraiser. What was it? A million bucks. No one knows where it came from but that went into the coffers.
GREG HUNT:
You know, already a fantastic representative. I’ve been out with her in her electorate. We were working on a Headspace for Monash and you know, she was fighting for that and we’re delivering that. Again, real things that matter; mental health for young people in her electorate.
So it doesn’t matter; we’re all going to face the electorate at some stage and she’ll go on real things such as that.
JON FAINE:
It’s always been fun sparring with you, Greg Hunt, I’ve enjoyed it on those many, many occasions over the decades and unlike some of your colleagues who refuse to come out of this program Peter Dutton, Sussan Ley, big cheerio to both of you and a few others as well.
It’s always good to be able to lock horns with a Minister in the government who’s not afraid to come on and explain why and how they do their job.
GREG HUNT:
Well look, I’m sad you’re leaving, I really am. I think over the years I’ve been a bit of a frequent flyer and it’s just been a privilege and a pleasure.
I continue to think of you as an equal opportunity agent provocateur. You take all of us on equally and democracy needs that. So I can’t believe you’re actually retiring but whatever you’re doing have a fantastic time and play lots of hockey.
JON FAINE:
No, it won’t be a lot of that but equal opportunity mongrel is actually the word that Tony Abbott used once so…
GREG HUNT:
I’ll stick with my language and he can stick with his.
JON FAINE:
Thank you, Greg. Good to see you.
GREG HUNT:
Take care, fella.
JON FAINE:
Greg Hunt, Member for Flinders, Minister for Health in the current government and someone who for a long, long time we’ve been able to hear from who is not afraid to explain how and why he does his job.