E&OE….
Topics: Clean Energy Innovation Fund, Clean Energy Finance Corporation, Australian Renewable Energy Agency, Arthur Sinodinos, Scott Morrison
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Greg Hunt is the Federal Environment Minister. Welcome back to RN Drive.
GREG HUNT:
And it's a pleasure. I had to laugh when I heard you describe your show tonight as ‘it's a ripper’. I think that's fabulous. It should be your tag line going forward.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
It's a ripper of a show, and I – and you're part of it, so look, take it as a compliment. Have you…
GREG HUNT:
And I'll put it all down to me, not just Play School.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
No. Have you and Malcolm Turnbull now moved on from Tony Abbott's policies on renewable energy?
GREG HUNT:
Look, there are fundamentals that we're taking forward in terms of the Emissions Reduction Fund, the Safeguards Mechanism, and the Renewable Energy Target.
And then there are new things that have been brought forward under Malcolm Turnbull –vehicle emissions standards, a National Energy Efficiency Plan, and ozone protection.
And obviously yesterday, the biggest new addition, which is really the signature of Malcolm Turnbull's prime ministership with regards to climate change, is the retention of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation and the Renewable Energy Agency, and the creation of a $1 billion Clean Energy Innovation Fund.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
So should we expect more movement, including on your carbon emissions policy?
GREG HUNT:
Well the fundamentals, with regards to the Emissions Reduction Fund, the safeguards, and the Renewable Energy Target are absolutely rock solid. They are core Liberal Party policy.
And then the additional elements that I've outlined, they're important, and the Clean Energy Finance Corporation and ARENA and the Clean Energy Innovation Fund, they are significant new initiatives.
And that's exactly what a new Prime Minister should be doing – keeping the fundamentals that are working and then adding those things which they believe represent important new steps. I'm really delighted with the combination.
I think we've got to a point where we have an incredibly strong policy, and we continue to beat expectations.
I'm very hopeful that the next Emissions Reduction Fund auction will be a significant success. We'll wait for the numbers to come in, but it continues to meet, beat, and completely dumbfound the critics.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
You've called your renewables policy a restructure, but aren't you effectively just moving $1 billion out from the CEFC into the new Clean Energy Innovation Fund, and defunding ARENA?
GREG HUNT:
Well what we're actually doing is injecting $1 billion of funds for loans and equity, or debt and equity, into ARENA.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
It's not new money though, because you're defunding ARENA.
GREG HUNT:
Well no, we haven't changed any of the funding arrangements for ARENA that were set in place in 2014, in the 2014 Budget, other than to now add $1 billion of investment funds.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
What's happening to the $1.3 billion budget of ARENA? It's been unallocated for a long time. Will you move to remove that funding completely?
GREG HUNT:
Well, that decision was taken in 2014, and that hasn't changed. So ARENA has been operating within a budgeted limit. They have $130 million of grants still to place, about $100 million of that is large scale solar.
Then there are smaller grants to place, and then it becomes predominantly an agency where instead of the taxpayer getting nothing back, the taxpayer will get 100 per cent back of their investment, and a small profit.
Rather than just giving money away and the taxpayer never getting it back, here it's the taxpayer's going to get 100 per cent of their funds back and it's also attracting and more likely to attract the private sector.
What the private sector has said to us is, if the Government is using the discipline of loans, then we have more confidence and we're more likely to invest.
So it's a pretty good outcome all round.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
On RN Drive, my guest is Greg Hunt. He is the Environment Minister, talking about that big announcement made yesterday on those two renewable energy funds and what will happen with them. 0418226576. I'd love to get your texts on this.
Minister, the former head of ARENA, Greg Bourne, says by replacing ARENA grants with debt and equity funding, you're hurting early stage innovation which will send our ideas overseas. Do you accept that that is a risk?
GREG HUNT:
No, I actually spoke with Greg Bourne today, and what he said to me was that the combination of debt and equity and grants is ideal. He would want slightly more grants than we've got, but he's previously said that it was overfunded, ARENA.
That's a fascinating thing for the head of an organisation to have acknowledged, that it was overfunded in terms of grants. Now he would like slightly more than we've given, but when I explained to him that there's $130 million of grants still to be placed, he was slightly surprised and I think more pleased than he had realised had been the situation.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But on the – okay, sure, but on that question of hurting early stage innovation because there's no- the grants are gone, do you accept there's a risk that some of this will go overseas?
GREG HUNT:
No, I respectfully don't, because having met with and spoken with a series of major banks on Monday evening, what they have said to us is where the Commonwealth is effectively investing on the basis of loans and has therefore done significant due diligence, that is then likely to attract much greater private sector funding.
Where money is just being given away and the taxpayer doesn't get a return, and 100 per cent write-off to the taxpayer, there is often a caution and a scepticism from the private sector.
Where there's a sense that the Commonwealth is managing public money very carefully, getting a return, doing the due diligence, then that is more likely to attract or crowd in private sector funds.
And indeed, nobody knows the investment sector better than the Prime Minister…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But if you can let me – no, but if you can…
GREG HUNT:
…and he talked about this at length as a fundamental philosophy and tenet of his Prime Ministership, and good banking and management only yesterday.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
But given this is what some people are saying could be a risk, will you monitor it to see whether this happens?
If there is a direct consequence and we see this moving overseas, will you respond? Is it something you're watching?
GREG HUNT:
Well we're – we just announced $1 billion Clean Energy Innovation Fund, and that's an injection of $1 billion…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Yeah, but you've got rid of the grants.
GREG HUNT:
…it's sort of odd that some people are opposed to that.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
The grants are gone.
GREG HUNT:
Pardon?
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
The grants are gone, though.
GREG HUNT:
Well that decision was taken over two years ago, announced in the Budget then, so the only change now is $1 billion more of available funding for ARENA than they would otherwise have had.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
On another issue, both the national newspapers had stories this morning about Malcolm Turnbull's small circle, which seems to exclude Scott Morrison. Are you in it?
GREG HUNT:
Look, different Ministers work very closely with the Prime Minister on different issues. On the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, ARENA, renewable, climate policy, I would work more closely with the Prime Minister than anybody.
On the constitutional question of a breaking of a deadlock over a workplace safety and workplace lawfulness issue, you'd have the Employment Minister and the Attorney.
Over the framing of tax policy and budget policy, it's Scott Morrison. And nobody works more closely with the Prime Minister than Scott Morrison…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
So you'd have – no, but you've got to have him in the meeting about the date of the Budget, wouldn't you?
GREG HUNT:
Look, of course they had discussed this idea in advance about the possibility, but the timing of the constitutional question, that was a decision that the Prime Minister was always going to make.
He then consulted and informed the Cabinet as a whole, and then made the announcement.
Scott and the Prime Minister, I know them both incredibly well. I've worked with each of them just on different issues this week. and over the last couple of days.
They’re both slightly bemused at what is clearly a vaguely desperate and incredibly transparent daily Labor Party press release beat up. These guys are not just close, they’re deep friends, they’ve been deep friends for a very long period of time – they talk, they consult, they engage, they work on the national policy settings.
And they will be one of the great Australian Prime Ministerial and Treasury partnerships, in my judgment and in my belief, that the country's ever seen.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
And just finally before I let you go, Greg Hunt, the New South Wales Liberal Party has been scolded by the State Electoral Commission and denied at least $4.4 million in funding for failing to disclose who donated to its Free Enterprise Foundation, back when Arthur Sinodinos was State Party Treasurer and Finance Director.
Now Labor has called for Senator Sinodinos to be stood down, but less than an hour ago the New South Wales Liberals said they will comply with the electoral laws.
But doesn't Senator Sinodinos still have questions to answer? Why does – should he stand aside, given his key role in the party when this happened?
GREG HUNT:
Look, two things – firstly about Arthur. There are very few people I've ever met in public life with more decency and more integrity and he is at the absolute apex of public integrity, and I think most people who have a balanced view of public life know that instinctively.
On the particular facts of this, I don't have them, because it's New South Wales, I'm a Victorian. The general…
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Conveniently, today.
GREG HUNT:
…it's always convenient to be a proud Victorian let me say, but – and if anybody wants to go somewhere for Easter, come to the Mornington Peninsula, it's a good place to come.
But let me put this – that all parties, at all times, have to comply with the law and the spirit of the law, and obviously something has happened.
Mike Baird has made it clear that the New South Wales party machinery has to comply, will comply, and if there are – if there's any penalty involved, then they will meet it appropriately.
But those are my comments, but as for Arthur, really one of the finest people in public life in Australia, in my view, my judgment, and my experience.
PATRICIA KARVELAS:
Greg Hunt, many thanks for your time, and have a happy Easter.
GREG HUNT:
Thanks a lot. Take care.
(ENDS)