E&OE…
Topics: University science quotas; ABCC bill; gun laws
TOM ELLIOTT:
Yesterday I spoke with the Dean of Science at Swinburne, a lady called Sarah Maddison, and she is advertising jobs in lectureships and research positions at Swinburne in various science subjects that only women can apply for.
Now, you are the Minister for Science and, of course, the Federal Government does fund most tertiary institutions. Why is this sort of discrimination allowed?
GREG HUNT:
Well, look, the first thing is, just coming on from the conversation with your last guest, we want to get more men into primary school teaching, we want to get more women into science and technology and engineering and maths.
One in four, roughly, science grads is a women and one in ten, just over one in ten, engineering graduates is a woman. So, on both fronts there is an imbalance.
TOM ELLIOTT:
So, do you want quotas, then? I mean, quotas as is occurring at Swinburne and at Melbourne University, are they the way to go?
GREG HUNT:
It’s not something we’re proposing. Our approach is to use incentives. Now from the little bit I’ve seen in relation to this particular case, it’s apparently not in breach of the law that. That’s the case there but I know our approach, my approach …
TOM ELLIOTT:
You can apply with the anti-discrimination to discriminate, bizarrely, but you can do it. But even if it’s allowable under the law, is it right?
GREG HUNT:
All of our fundamental approaches here have been built around the idea of incentives and encouragement to bring in those that aren’t there.
In other words, to encourage more women in, so as a general rule when it comes to jobs, I believe in equal opportunity.
That’s the best way to get outcomes and as a government, we’re investing to encourage girls and women to study science and engineering and maths and other like-minded subjects. But that’s the approach that I overwhelmingly prefer.
TOM ELLIOTT:
So, what does that mean? I mean, I’ve got your media release here so you’ve got $13.3 million in grants to inspire the science prize winners of the future.
Does this mean you offer prizes to women who do science projects?
GREG HUNT:
So, this is something we’re actually announcing tomorrow. So, what we’re sharing with your listeners today is that there’ll be $13.3 million for grants, as you say, to inspire young people to do science.
Roughly half of that, $6.4 million, goes to help young Australians of all backgrounds but in particular it will of course help those from disadvantaged backgrounds who are good at maths, who are good at science, to participate in international and domestic competitions for science.
So, this is the very point that I think both of us are making. It’s about providing incentives and support for those who otherwise wouldn’t have the opportunity, and you can have brilliant young kids, they might be at a particularly school, their parents are struggling, they don’t have the money for their child to go and be part of an Olympiad even though the child might be brilliant.
So, these are effectively scholarships for special purposes for maths and sciences that those from disadvantaged backgrounds need.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Which I absolutely agree with. I think if lack of money is preventing you getting an education, that’s where the Government can and should step in. I mean, that’s the reason we used to have the old Commonwealth Scholarships.
But just so we’re absolutely clear, Mr Hunt, these grants, the $13.3 million that you mentioned, these are available to both men and women and of any ethnicity and or religious background?
GREG HUNT:
Yes, they’re gender blind, they’re colour blind, they’re religion and race blind.
And it’s about giving young people opportunities, particularly to make sure the absolute brightest minds don’t miss out on any opportunities and that’s I think the right approach here.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Okay, but can I just again refer to this conversation I had on air with Sarah Maddison from Swinburne yesterday.
When I asked her whether in the future they might consider quotas for people of different ethnicities, people of different religious backgrounds, people of different sexual preferences, she said it’s something we’ll look at. Now, is that the sort of academic future we can look forward to?
GREG HUNT:
My principle and our principle as a government and as a party and as a movement is equal opportunity, giving people the best chance to be their best selves.
That’s the approach we’ve taken as a party, internally we’ve always looked at encouragement and incentives rather than at quotas. Couldn’t be a clearer principle.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Calls for Greg Hunt in a moment, Minister for Science and Industry. 96-900-693, 13-13-32.
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CALLER BARRY:
Good afternoon Tom and Greg. Look, I’m getting fed up with this half quoting of figures. When you say, like for engineering that only one out of eight is a woman, how many people or how many women apply to go into engineering?
TOM ELLIOTT:
Well, that’s a good point, Mr Hunt. I mean, if we women aren’t applying for engineering, why is it a problem if that’s their choice?
GREG HUNT:
Look, Barry’s point is the correct one. It’s not the dropout rate, it’s the application rate.
Look, there’s a simple way to put it. We have a shortage of engineers relative to graduates in Australia, if we had more women coming in we’d have more Australian graduates, we wouldn’t have to be bringing people in from overseas.
I met with Engineers Australia very recently and just historic practice, not enough women have come into engineering and somebody put it really well to me the other day. He said, you know, you wouldn’t put a football team out on the field with half the players in the shed.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Yeah, but you also wouldn’t put a football team out on the field at the AFL level with half the players being female.
GREG HUNT:
I think they can do the engineering job pretty well.
TOM ELLIOTT:
But there’s a very good reason women don’t want to be engineers.
I mean, the engineering students I remember from university, they had beards, they showered once, possibly twice per week, they drank more than anybody else, and they were generally badly dressed. As a woman, you look at that and saying that’s not for me.
GREG HUNT:
Well, look, I think one of the key things, and I’ve seen it in the schools and the universities now, is encouraging women to come in and the incredible jobs that they can have in this space.
You know, as you go forward over the next two decades for any teenagers or others listening or parents who are wondering what their sons and in particular their daughters might do, you have huge opportunities, whether it’s the advanced manufacturing field, whether it’s in commerce from going through engineering and all the maths skills, whether it’s in construction or making of things.
Just incredible jobs opportunities and especially in the digital space, it’s an all-purpose tool going forward.
TOM ELLIOTT:
I know, you know, but..
GREG HUNT:
I think we hung around with some of the same people at university, I have to say.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Quite possibly. You and I both agree, quotas, not the way to go. Encouragement possibly is.
Now, another issue that’s cropped up in federal politics today, David Leyonhjelm who’s an independent senator, although he does represent a party called the Liberal Democrats, he seems determined to relax Australia’s gun laws.
In particular, he’s obsessed with this idea of the Adler lever-repeating shotgun. Malcolm Turnbull- and in turn if you believe to the changes in the gun laws, he’ll support your government on the Australian Building and Construction Commission legislation.
What’s going to happen? I mean, are you considering as a government loosening gun restrictions in order to get David Leyonhjelm’s vote?
GREG HUNT:
No we’re not and no we won’t.
I couldn’t be clearer on that point. We are the ones that actually imposed a ban on the repeating shotgun, the Adler.
The reason we did that is because it hadn’t been covered by any special laws, there was a new type which was becoming more prevalent, a seven shot, and we had information that a major shipment was proposed to be imported into Australia.
Now, why anybody would want to bring a massive shipment of these repeating rifles in, well you’ve got to shotguns in, you’ve got to presume the worst.
So, we took action, we put it on the banned list, we put it on a temporary basis whilst we were waiting for an agreement with the states.
We don’t have that agreement with the states but it will stay on the banned list whilst we’re in government and until there’s an agreement with the states.
And you compare that with the fact that right now the Labor Party is blocking our attempts to have mandatory sentencing for convicted gun smugglers.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Righto. And what does that mean for David Leyonhjelm’s support for your ABCC legislation which, let’s remember, was the actual reason we had a double dissolution election, does that mean he’ll walk away?
GREG HUNT:
Oh, look, I won’t speak for him. I’ll let him make his own point although I have seen something just before coming on air which indicated that he had other issues that he might be able to pursue.
It’s an important topic, the ABCC. It’s about union corruption and thuggery in the workplace.
That’s about lower costs for housing, lower costs for commercial buildings, it’s about more jobs that can be created, and we’re determined to get that through in the same way that we are determined to make sure that these rifles, these shotguns are banned whilst we’re in government and will stay banned.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Alright, let’s go to some calls. Pam, go ahead.
CALLER PAM:
Good afternoon, Tom and Mr Hunt. My granddaughter turns 18 tomorrow and she’s going to do civil engineering with global science.
GREG HUNT:
Fabulous.
CALLER PAM:
She could’ve done anything and it was either architecture or engineering and I’m not sure, Tom, I missed what you said about- you sort of stereotyped the girls that want to do engineering are.
TOM ELLIOTT:
No, no. I stereotyped the men who used to do engineering.
CALLER PAM:
Oh, sorry. Because I’m thinking she’s a dainty little girl.
TOM ELLIOTT:
No, no. They had beards, drink a lot of beer.
No, no. I’m sure it’s changed. But Pam, I mean, yesterday I spoke to the Head of Science at Swinburne, I don’t know where your granddaughter’s going but she feels it’s necessary to have quotas for women in academe and yet the fact that your granddaughter’s won her way in off her own bat suggests that I would’ve thought that’s not true, as in we don’t need a quota, do we?
CALLER PAM:
Well we did discuss it the other day and she’s like me, I don’t believe in it. I believe in merit-based things and everything and she would probably have marks to get into medicine. So, it wasn’t going to worry her but it’s going to benefit her financially.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Absolutely.
GREG HUNT:
So, Pam, I’ve got to say it’s music to my ears for somebody who’s coming in like your granddaughter, she’s got there on merit and I love people who build things, who create things, who actually, instead of just talking, go out and build the physical world around us, and the engineers do that.
TOM ELLIOTT:
So, why are you I politics then?
GREG HUNT:
Because my hands are not very good. I’m clearly not as capable as Pam’s granddaughter at building things.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Lou, good afternoon.
CALLER LOU:
Good afternoon. Gentlemen, this shortage of engineers, what are we talking here? Structural, electrical, petroleum engineering, climate change engineers like, what are we talking here? Wind farm engineers?
GREG HUNT:
Look, the Engineers Australia, with whom I met a little while ago, have put out a report, they are of the view, their analysis is that we need about 20,000 engineers coming into the system each year in Australia and that’s right across the gamut.
A combination of electrical engineers, it could be computer engineers, it could be people working in civil, mechanical, certainly the construction space, as I say.
And we have a certain number of Australian students that go in, we have a number of international students, and then we have to import a big gap.
The figures they gave me are approximately 8000 Australian students and then we have to import after the international students probably 7000 to 8000 to 90000 a year, depending on the flow through. So, significant shortages.
TOM ELLIOTT:
So we actually need twice as many Australians to do engineering. Lou, thank you for the call.
We’ll let you go Mr Hunt, Minister for Science and Industry, talk to you again in a fortnight.
GREG HUNT:
Thanks very much Tom.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Greg Hunt there.
(ENDS)