E&OE….
Topics: Leadership, removal of the carbon tax, Budget
TOM ELLIOTT:
The Federal Environment Minister, Greg Hunt, joins us now. Mr Hunt, good afternoon.
GREG HUNT:
And good afternoon, Tom.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Now, the Prime Minister said yesterday that good Government starts today. Have you noticed a big change?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I think that what has happened is that there was a disruption in the last week. We should be absolutely honest and…
TOM ELLIOTT:
A disruption. Is that what you’re calling it?
GREG HUNT:
Frankly, I apologise for that. Over the last year and a half, there have been some incredibly important things done in terms of, obviously, saving lives at sea, reducing electricity prices for people, building confidence in the economy.
These are real and fundamental and important. Last week and over the last few days, there was – whether you call it a kerfuffle or a disruption. It shouldn’t have happened. I am sorry. I think it’s important for members of the parliamentary party and the Cabinet to make that clear to the Australian people…
TOM ELLIOTT:
Well, if you’re…
GREG HUNT:
But there are really…
TOM ELLIOTT:
If you’re apologising…
GREG HUNT:
…important things that we’re doing.
TOM ELLIOTT:
But if you’re apologising, have you gone to those backbenchers? There are 39 – assuming all the Cabinet with you are a part, sorry, I should say – assuming all the Cabinet members, you know, voted against the spill, that means of the remaining, you know, 60-odd backbenchers, 39 of them – almost two-thirds – voted for the spill.
Have you spoken to those backbenchers and said, you know, you did the wrong thing? I mean, have you made that clear because, I mean, you’re apologising for what happened.
GREG HUNT:
Look, it’s a secret ballot so you don’t know how individuals vote, but I have spoken with a lot of backbenchers and I think the way forward is not to get into the sort of internecine wars that the ALP had with Rudd and Gillard. That hasn’t been the case here. Essentially, what we see that there’s a lot of goodwill. I’ve spoken to a lot of people.
They want to get on with the job of really doing two things: making sure we are improving living conditions and reducing the cost of living for families; things such as removing electricity taxes rather than the alternative, which is on the table, of a massive hike in electricity taxes from Mr Shorten; as well as making the savings which will ensure that the next generation isn’t burdened with a huge bill passed from one group of people to another, which isn’t the Australian way.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Okay. You’re talking…
GREG HUNT:
So that’s the…
TOM ELLIOTT:
You’re talking about debt…
GREG HUNT:
…balance that we’ve got to strike.
TOM ELLIOTT:
You’re talking about debt reduction there. I agree with that. Now – but, I mean – look, I don’t want to harp on about the leadership spill that didn’t actually happen, but, I mean, obviously, a lot of your colleagues aren’t very happy with – whether it’s the party’s leadership, the direction you’re going, the policies that have been announced to date, Prince Philip’s knighthood.
I mean, things came to a head – I mean, it’s good of you to apologise but there’s no denying that a lot of people in the Liberal Party aren’t very happy. And you say there’s goodwill, but, I mean, the opinion polls tell you that, you know, frankly, out there in voter land, the goodwill is rapidly evaporating.
GREG HUNT:
Well, I think we always have to make the case. And I’m not a great commentator on ourselves. I am, hopefully, somebody who’s an advocate, and what I would argue and advocate is that the central task is to ensure that we take the pressure off families now, and we have done that in a very significant way when you look at the interest rates which have also, in part, been attributed to the removal of the carbon tax by no less a figure than the Reserve Bank Governor.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Well, I know interest rates have gone down.
GREG HUNT:
These things matter. And then protecting the future generations from massive debt. At the moment, we’re paying $40 million a day in interest and racking, you know – and we inherited over $100 million a day of expenditure beyond our means.
So this is the balance that we have to do to deal with those things fairly. And we’re listening. There is more to come on this front but a family’s package is right at the heart of the next round of things.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Okay. Well, let’s just deal with a couple of things that you mentioned. One was interest rate cuts. Now, when Joe Hockey was in opposition, he said that when rates went down, that was bad news because the economy was heading south, and he was actually right then. But now that interest rates are going down, he’s saying its good news.
Now, I can tell you, from my reading as a former economist – I mean, the reason the Reserve Bank is cutting rates is because the Reserve Bank sees trouble on the horizon. I mean, that is the reason that they cut rates in the US, in Europe and in Japan – everywhere – because they saw economic growth slowing. I mean, to say – I know it’s good for families in the short term because the mortgage bill goes down but the Reserve Bank is worried.
Secondly, you mention power prices. Now, I know that the carbon tax was axed last year but, I mean, my power prices, courtesy of Origin, recently were lifted between eight and nine per cent, depending on whether it was off peak or whatever. But, I mean, a lot of people – and I’ve had a lot of emails about this – have said despite the carbon tax being abolished, their electricity prices are going up, not down.
GREG HUNT:
Well, let me deal with electricity prices first. In Victoria – whether it’s Simply Energy, which had an eight per cent reduction; Lumo, 8.2 per cent; AGL, 8.9; Power Direct, 12.4 – you saw as a result of the carbon tax, real reductions.
There are State-based matters. We have done our task. They must do theirs now. And if the carbon tax were brought back, what you would see is all of those savings added over on top of what’s occurring in the States…
TOM ELLIOTT:
Okay. So what…
GREG HUNT:
So we’ve done something…
TOM ELLIOTT:
All right. So what’s the status though…
GREG HUNT:
…dramatic.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Power prices have gone up. They haven’t gone down so much as having gone up less than what they would have gone up had the carbon tax remained in place. I mean, that…
GREG HUNT:
Well…
TOM ELLIOTT:
Because it seems to me that’s what has happened.
GREG HUNT:
Well, no. The Australian Bureau of Statistics said that we saw, in the quarter after the carbon tax was removed, the largest drop in power prices in Australian history. So there was an actual reduction right around the country. Now, over and above that, there are State-based factors which are always there.
But if you put the carbon tax back on as Bill Shorten proposes, you would, on average, see a 10 per cent rise on top of everything else. If it went back to its previous level – if it goes to the level but on the floating carbon or electricity tax, they had calculated, for 2020, in their last Budget, it would be a 15 per cent rise over and above what’s there now.
So we’ve taken the pressure off. The Victorian Government has to do their bit in Victoria now and other States should do their bit. In New South Wales, you’ve seen some very significant decisions from the independent regulator to help reduce power prices further.
What I would say is that there’s a real choice now. The lower prices under us. The deliberately consciously higher prices which the ALP wants to introduce and that’s an extraordinary thing.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Calls for Greg Hunt in a moment.
Intermission
TOM ELLIOTT:
Gary, good afternoon. You’ve got a question for Greg Hunt.
CALLER GARY:
Yes, I do, Tom. All Mr Hunt and his colleagues keep on saying that the electricity has gone down. Now 1 January, electricity prices went up. He hasn’t explained anything, or none of his colleagues, and I want to know why they went up on 1 January.
TOM ELLIOTT:
All right, Mr Hunt, why did power prices go up at the start of last month?
GREG HUNT:
Well, around the country there are different results in different places but the point is that’s what happens around the country. This is a question for the Victorian Government. We have done our bit. The largest drop in power prices in Australian history, the Australian Bureau of Statistics, no doubt, no question. You know…
TOM ELLIOTT:
So you’re saying that even if they’ve gone up in Victoria, they’ve gone up – they’ve gone down so much everywhere else like New South Wales, Queensland…
GREG HUNT:
No, no. No, after the carbon tax was removed, the full amount was taken off. The ACCC has confirmed that, the Australian Bureau of Statistics has confirmed. I know that people’s power bills have gone down.
However, there are other factors beyond the carbon tax which have nothing to do with it. They do have everything to do with how State Governments manage it and the real point here is you have a problem in Victoria. The Victorian Government has to deal with that…
TOM ELLIOTT:
So what could the Victorian Government do?
GREG HUNT:
… and Bill Shorten then wants to add another 10 to 15 per cent on top of it…
TOM ELLIOTT:
Okay, but what could the Victorian Government do?
GREG HUNT:
So if he comes in, bills will go up…
TOM ELLIOTT:
All right.
GREG HUNT:
… an additional 10 to 15 per cent.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Okay, and I get that but I want to know what the Victorian Government could or should do? I mean, we just – we had a Liberal Government until recently, now we have got Daniel Andrews’ Labor Government. I mean, what can the State Government do to cut power prices?
GREG HUNT:
Well, the Victorian Government should be absolutely clear with the power companies, ask for an explanation, ask why, on their watch, the first thing that happens is that Victorian power companies have increased prices because the carbon tax has taken pressure off. That’s one of the reasons, exactly why the Reserve Bank lowered interest rates.
They pointed to the reduction in inflation across Australia. And so we have done things which nobody else – has ever happened. I’m a Victorian. I don’t like what has happened here but I can guarantee this, that if we had not removed the carbon tax, the bills should be, at this moment, on average, about 10 per cent higher. If you were a Power Direct customer, you’d be paying twelve and a half per cent, an AGL customer 8.9 per cent.
So these are real differences. And right now, there’s a choice, whether or not you stick with the situation where that pressure is being taken off compared with what’s happening under State law and companies that are running in Victoria – and again, I would call on the Premier to explain how and why – or…
TOM ELLIOTT:
Well, I think…
GREG HUNT:
…you add a massive new tax. So that’s going…
TOM ELLIOTT:
Well, I’ll – I do want and try and get some comment from the Victorian Government about that. I’m not certain that giving the power prices a talking to would change things though.
GREG HUNT:
Well, we’re the ones that have actually reduced it.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Okay.
GREG HUNT:
And it’s real and it’s significant and it makes a difference to families and if – remember this: the ALP policy is to return the tax and electricity prices will sky rocket, that’s what it’s designed to do.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Jackson, go ahead.
CALLER JACKSON:
Yes. Good afternoon, Mr Hunt. I’m just wanting to know, do you think Mr Abbott can win the next Federal election because the election is won at the ballot box, not in the Liberal Party voting room? Do you think he can win the next election?
TOM ELLIOTT:
Well, that is a fundamental question. What do you think, Mr Hunt?
GREG HUNT:
Yes, I do.
TOM ELLIOTT:
You do?
GREG HUNT:
And I appreciate the question from Jackson. You are absolutely right, it’s the people that determine who wins the election, who gets to govern Australia. Our task is, A, to be a good government and, B, to explain that to the people.
The central challenge, really – to have an open and honest conversation, the central challenge has been having inherited a Budget which is literally stealing $100 million a day from our children and our grandchildren, to find that right balance.
Now 80 per cent of the Budget has gone through. These are important measures for sustainability so as we can protect our children and our grandchildren. And what the public has also said to us is but we’ve got to do it in a way which doesn’t unfairly impact on anybody at the moment so that’s the balance.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Mr Hunt, we’re going to have to leave it there, we’re going to have to leave it there and I do appreciate you taking the time and we will talk to you again in two weeks.
GREG HUNT:
A pleasure, Tom.
TOM ELLIOTT:
Greg Hunt, Federal Environment Minister. He will be our regular guest on the programme.
(ENDS)