The Hon. Greg Hunt MP
Minister for Health and Aged Care
TRANSCRIPT
14 November 2021
INTERVIEW WITH DAVID SPEERS
ABC INSIDERS
E&OE…
Topics: COVID-19 vaccine boosters, Australian state borders, Climate change
DAVID SPEERS:
Greg Hunt, welcome to the program.
GREG HUNT:
Good morning, David.
DAVID SPEERS:
So Anthony Fauci, we heard there, he says booster shots are essential. Your vaccine coordinator, Lieutenant-General John Frewen says the science is still evolving around booster shots. They’re a bit of a top-up on the first two doses. What do you think?
GREG HUNT:
So our medical advice is that booster shots are just that. That they are an important booster. They add to the capacity of an individual to have immunity and to have a strong immune response.
That’s all of the advice from the Therapeutic Goods Administration, the Chief Medical Officer, the committee led by Professor Brendan Murphy, SCITAG, the Scientific and Technical Advisory Group.
We’ve been one nations in the world after Israel to start a whole of nation booster program. We’ve already reached over a quarter of a million boosters only a week into the full program.
We’re at, I think, 257,000 boosters at this point. And we have a whole of nation supplies and so, we’re launching today our next campaign. It’s the old Frankie J Holden tune. It’s now Frankie J Holden’s Get a jab! So in the words of FJ Holden – get a jab.
DAVID SPEERS:
Alright.
GREG HUNT:
And it applies to boosters. If you haven’t had your second dose, if you haven’t had your first dose, come out and get a jab.
DAVID SPEERS:
I guess the question is – is it essential? Are you going to, I know that you don’t right now, but require it for air travel? Are you going to require aged care workers to have that booster?
Will this- will you have to revisit some of this down the track and make it essential? That it’s a 3-dose vaccine program?
GREG HUNT:
Sure. So, it’s recommended. The advice at this stage of Professor Murphy’s Scientific and Technical Advisory Group is that you’re regarded as fully vaccinated with two doses. Everything is always under review, but there’s no plan to change that requirement at this stage.
But as we’ve done throughout, we’ll continue to follow the medical advice. That’s how we’ve had one of the lowest rates of loss of life in the world. One of the highest rates of vaccination. And now, one of the earliest whole of nation booster programs in the world.
DAVID SPEERS:
Just on the general vaccination rates. So 90 per cent of those aged over 16 have now had one jab. 83 per cent have now had two.
Is there a level at which you think that it will be safe to allow the unvaccinated to go into venues, to fly on planes, and so on? Or should the lockouts of the unvaccinated continue?
GREG HUNT:
Look, inevitably, there will be a point where I believe and I’m confident that we’ll be able to return to our normal way of living. But there’s more to go at this point in time as we go through the completion of the first dose, the second dose and the booster programs.
DAVID SPEERS:
What is that point likely to be do you think?
GREG HUNT:
Well, as ever, we’ll continue to follow the medical advice. We’re moving now into the latest stages of our national plan. We’re heading towards the third phase.
We’ve, as you know, we’ve achieved the extraordinary situation of over 90 per cent first doses and over 80 per cent second doses. 83 per cent as of this morning, and 90.4 per cent for the first doses.
And we want to see now there’s only one state to get there on the 70 per cent rate for second doses which is Western Australia. And that should happen in the next 48 hours.
So, what we’ll do is continue to follow the medical advice on risk, but the more people that come forward, the more we’re in a position to return to normality.
The next thing – it’s an incremental but important step. We’re opening retail and removing the biosecurity determination which prevents retail in international terminals. That’s what we’re announcing today. And it’s another step.
DAVID SPEERS:
Duty free back on!
GREG HUNT:
Duty free is back on! And it’s another step towards the reopening of the country. The most important things, of course, though, are the borders.
Families being able to reunite. Loved ones being able to come together. Grandparents seeing grandchildren. And we’re seeing that. But we want to see that with states being open to states. Of mums and dads being able to see their children. And a grandparent seeing their grandchild for the first time, or a grandchild seeing an elderly grandparent in palliative.
DAVID SPEERS:
So just on that. When do you referenced WA, when do you, when do you think that Western Australia should open its border?
GREG HUNT:
Well, we’d like to see Western Australia open as soon as possible. It’s obviously a matter for them. It’s subject to their assessments. But we are hearing that they are considering bringing that forward to, well, coincidently, to time with the cricket.
We’ll let them determine it. I want to see a Perth test – fast, hard, bouncy wicket, last test of the Ashes, gives us our best chance. But above all else, I want to see not just cricketers but children reuniting with parents.
I want the same rules for children and cancer and cardiac patients, as for cricketers. And to do that as quickly as possible. It’s our deep humanity to bring people together. And that’s what we’d urge. And you know, we’re seeing the numbers lift in WA and I welcome that.
DAVID SPEERS:
Should that happen before Christmas? I mean, I appreciate you saying that this is up to them. But you’re making it clear that you want to see families reunited. Should that happen before Christmas?
GREG HUNT:
Well, I’d like Lanai to be able to join with her friends and family if they’re still in Western Australia, and other people as soon as possible.
DAVID SPEERS:
Christmas?
GREG HUNT:
As soon as possible.
DAVID SPEERS:
Okay. Now, talking about state borders, we’re going to see South Australia, Queensland open before Christmas. But the Indigenous vaccination rates in some of these states, certainly still well behind where the national rate is.
Only 55 per cent of Indigenous Australians have had two jabs. In Queensland, that rate is 42 per cent. South Australia, 43 per cent. Is it safe to open these state borders if you’ve got vulnerable communities still below 50 per cent double vaccination?
GREG HUNT:
So, where we’re at is at almost 70 per cent first vaccination rates. We’re at- increasing in terms of the double vaccination rate. The Indigenous rates are increasing at vastly, at a vastly faster rate than the general population rate.
As Pat Turner, the head of the Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisations, or NACHO, for the national body, has said it’s not a question of access, it’s been a question of uptake.
And particularly, as you say, in Queensland and Western Australia, those numbers have been lower. We’re seeing a good uptick in the Northern Territory. Natasha Files, the Northern Territory Minister, is working very closely with myself and our COVID Shield team.
And they’re working community by community to get them to overcome in some cases what Pat Turner and Ken Wyatt have referred to as hesitation.
DAVID SPEERS:
I appreciate that there’s improvement being made in parts. But is it safe to open the state borders where the rates are still so low for Indigenous communities?
GREG HUNT:
Well, it is important that we open these borders, and the Doherty modelling has shown that these state figures help protect everybody. But we want every individual to come forward, Indigenous, non-Indigenous.
We’re focusing in particular today on immuno-compromised patients such as cancer patients, with the Breast Cancer Network of Australia, standing up and talking with them to urge breast cancer patients and others to have their first dose if they haven’t had it. Or their second. Or to come forward, in particular, for their boosters.
And so, these are national figures that have been set based on the strongest science. What’s set Australia apart? How is it that we have the third lowest rate of loss of life in the OECD and one of the highest vaccination rates? It’s because we’ve listened to that science.
We’ve followed that science. We’ve done that very carefully. And that’s led Australia to a position where we are one of the most highly vaccinated societies, most recently vaccinated societies and one of the first, after Israel, to have a whole of nation booster program.
So, all these things come together, but we continue to drive these numbers.
DAVID SPEERS:
Okay. The next step for kids. The Pfizer vaccine’s now available in the United States for 5 to 11 year olds. Australian regulators are waiting for more data from the US before giving the green light here.
You’ve secured supply of the smaller doses that are going to be required for those kids. But are those supplies in Australia yet?
GREG HUNT:
Well, obviously, as you said at the outset, they’re provided when they’re needed. If you get something long before they’re due, then you can bring forward the expiry date relative to the time that they’re required.
So we’re in the very fortunate position that we’ll be able to meet the requirements when there is approval, presuming there’s approval from the TGA and from ATAGI, or the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation.
DAVID SPEERS:
And when do you expect that to be?
GREG HUNT:
Professor Alan Cheng has said that they want to review the real world data coming out of the United States. It was a very small clinical trial by vaccine clinical trial standards. Only a few thousand children.
They will see very significant numbers of children in the general population vaccinated in the United States. At this stage, to the best of my knowledge, only the United States has provided an emergency approval for children 5-11.
And our medical regulator, the TGA, and the Technical Advisory Grroup led by the Victorian Principal Vaccines advisor to the Premier, Alan Cheng, has said this they do not want to cut corners on the study and data for children. But they want to go as quickly as possible, which is what we’re doing.
DAVID SPEERS:
So is it likely before Christmas or after Christmas?
GREG HUNT:
No, the expectation that they have set is the first part of January, hopefully early January. But it’s in the hands of the medical experts. They operate independently. But they’re going as quickly as possible.
We’re in the fortunate position where we have the doses that we require. We included that in the contract. But significantly, we’re ready to go when our regulators are convinced that it’s safe and effective for children.
DAVID SPEERS:
I guess for families, should they be worried about unvaccinated kids hugging their grandparents at Christmas?
GREG HUNT:
I’ll leave that to the medical advisers. But we follow the health regulations of the individual states. And very simply, the critical thing is obviously stay as COVID-safe as possible.
But if everybody is vaccinated, the best protection for kids is vaccinated parents, family members and siblings over the age of 12. We’re already at over 70 per cent of 12- to 15-year-olds who’ve had first vaccinations.
So what we see is that we were able to open the 12- to 15-year-olds once we had the medical advice. And Australian kids and Australian families in that age group, and teenagers, have been magnificent. But we want to continue to encourage people of all ages to be vaccinated, or as Frankie J Holden was saying: get a jab.
DAVID SPEERS:
Okay, and do you expect that those, sorry.
GREG HUNT:
And then secondly we want to ensure that everybody is ready and as many parents as possible bring their 5- to 11-year-olds forward.
But in order to do that, they need to be confident that the best regulators in the world have looked at the best science in the world.
DAVID SPEERS:
Fair enough, do you expect, though, with those younger kids, they will be required to have a jab to get on a plane or to go to venues, in the way that older children and adults currently are?
GREG HUNT:
Look, we’ll follow the medical advice on that. And that’s something that would be considered by what’s called the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee, or the group of state Chief Health Officers and Territory Chief Health Officers, along with the Commonwealth Chief Health Officer.
So one of the things that we’ve done is recognise what are the decisions now, and what are the decisions that will follow later on.
What’s the key take-away? We’re protected. We’ve got very low loss of life compared to the rest of the world, albeit with real human tragedy along the way, in what has been an agonising pandemic for the world.
One of the highest vaccination rates, lowest rates of loss of life, and one of the strongest economic recoveries. We’re opening up and we’re doing it safely.
DAVID SPEERS:
Just quickly, Minister. Glasgow, the final outcome, the final agreement at the international climate talks there. Countries like Australia will have to update their 2030 target next year. Is that something that the government’s willing to do?
GREG HUNT:
We welcome the outcome at Glasgow. It’s important progress for the world. It’s important protection for Australia. We have already set out that we have a 2050 target of net zero, a 2030 target of minus 26 to minus 28 per cent on our 2005 emissions.
DAVID SPEERS:
This agreement says you’ll have to update that next year.
GREG HUNT:
But critically we’re projecting reaching a minus 35 per cent actual pathway. So meeting and beating our targets.
DAVID SPEERS:
Will you update the target next year?
GREG HUNT:
Well, we’ve set our target. But what we’ll continue to do is update our projections. But the target has been set.
DAVID SPEERS:
But this agreement says you’ve got to update the target next year.
GREG HUNT:
The projections continue to meet and beat the target.
DAVID SPEERS:
Doesn’t this agreement say- Sorry, I just want to be clear. Australia, I assume…
GREG HUNT:
So, meeting and beating the target is the critical thing. It reminds me, David, of Prince Hal to Hotspur in Henry IV: I never promised to pay thee, but now that I’m here, I’ll pay thee double. It means under-promise, over-deliver.
DAVID SPEERS:
Okay, I appreciate that point. I’m just trying to establish here, Minister.
GREG HUNT:
And that’s what we’ve done. We meet and beat 2020, already meeting and beating 2030.
DAVID SPEERS:
That 2030 target, I think you were the Minister at the time when that was set.
GREG HUNT:
And we’ve beaten it.
DAVID SPEERS:
But will Australia update it next year? Is that what we’ve agreed to in Glasgow?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I’ll let others speak to the text of it. But the advice that I have is that we have a clear target and what we change is our projections.
And guess what? Five years ago, six years ago, everybody said we wouldn’t meet our 2020 target. We were able to beat it. They said that we wouldn’t meet our 2030 target. We’re going to beat it.
What does that mean? China is up 70 per cent. India is up 80 per cent. Korea is up 30 per cent. Canada’s down 1 per cent. New Zealand’s down 4 per cent. We are down 20 per cent.
So we’re down 20 per cent on our emissions and we’re making enormous progress. But we’re doing it without higher electricity prices and higher petrol prices and that’s the alternative for Australians. Higher electricity, higher petrol under Labor, lower prices, lower emissions under us.
DAVID SPEERS:
Okay, I think we get the point, Minister.
GREG HUNT:
Good.
DAVID SPEERS:
Just finally, speaking of next year. I’m pretty sure I’ve asked you this before, but the speculation continues. Will you still be around? Will you be running again?
GREG HUNT:
Pre-selected and running.
DAVID SPEERS:
Pre-selected and running?
GREG HUNT:
Yep.
DAVID SPEERS:
All right, Greg Hunt, thanks for joining us.
GREG HUNT:
Thank you very much.
ENDS