The Hon. Greg Hunt MP
Minister for Health and Aged Care
TRANSCRIPT
14 July 2021
INTERVIEW WITH RICHARD GLOVER
ABC RADIO
E&OE…
Topics: COVID-19 advertisement, vaccine rollout, mental health.
RICHARD GLOVER:
The Premier today announced two more weeks of lockdown, taking us to the end of the month but support packages involving both state and federal funding appear to envisage a month of lockdown.
There’s money for business available via Service New South Wales and for individuals with Commonwealth support payments of up to $600 a week. They’re available through the Services Australia website.
Greg Hunt of course is the Federal Health Minister and he joins us on the line. Minister, good afternoon.
GREG HUNT:
Good afternoon, Richard.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Now I noticed your $600 thing is done as a direct payment rather than as a JobKeeper payment. JobKeeper was a good idea, wasn’t it? Why not do it that way around?
GREG HUNT:
Well, this has been tailored to the needs in New South Wales, now, working the New South Wales Government. So there are two different payments. One is the COVID Disaster Relief Payment, the $600 or the $375. So that’s income support for individuals and for businesses, there’s the cash flow boost of up to $10,000 a week.
And so those two things sit side-by-side. We’ve worked them through with the New South Wales Government, and they’re very important forms of assistance and we recognise that we have in place one week, two week, three week and four week supports, which apply around the country or activities. And we’ve put in place the protections for New South Wales and it is a hard time.
But I have to say, what we’re beginning to see is the community cases, as opposed to those in isolation, which will continue, the community cases increasingly be narrowed down, and we’re seeing some signs of that flattening.
They’ll be good and bad days, is the honest answer. But I think the signs are that Sydneysiders and the New South Wales Government together and doing an amazing job.
RICHARD GLOVER:
I don’t mean to unduly compliment your Government, but JobKeeper was a pretty good idea wasn’t it? Because it kept people, it kept employees and employers connected. Why not do that again?
GREG HUNT:
Well, it worked very, very well, produced some of the best results in the world. And I know Josh Frydenberg, the Treasurer, was on with Fran Kelly this morning and went through many of those elements.
But for now, on a state-by-state basis and our ability to do this rapidly, we have the payments for individuals, so the income support, but also the payments for businesses. And the critical thing is that the business cash flow is dependent on businesses maintaining their employees.
And so I think that that’s a very important protection. So that provides that connection, exactly what you’re talking about, done in a slightly different way. But we are working in partnership with the states here, which is a different model given the different phase of the pandemic.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay. Can I ask you about the wheezing woman advertisement?
GREG HUNT:
Yeah of course.
RICHARD GLOVER:
You know a lot of young people I know are finding it a pretty annoying advertisement. It’s incredibly scary. It’s basically telling them to get a vaccine and hurry, otherwise this will happen to you. But they can’t get the vaccine.
GREG HUNT:
Well, I think the ad is confronting and it’s consciously and deliberately confronting. And it was approved by the Chief Medical officer, obviously focused on the Sydney area.
And it’s three messages are, please stay at home, please be tested and if you are eligible, be vaccinated.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay. But the woman as pictured by her age, going on her age, is not eligible?
GREG HUNT:
Well, already we’ve had over 900,000 people under the age of 40 be vaccinated. And they could be people who are immunocompromised, Indigenous Australians, health workers, quarantine workers.
And so it is a very simple set of messages, please stay at home. I mean, if you catch this disease, you could be seriously ill, hospitalised. And people of any age can die, obviously, though that risk increases dramatically with age.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay, you cannot shrilly, the point is you cannot shrilly, in a shrill way, tell young people to get a vaccine that they can’t get, they are desperate to get, in many cases.
GREG HUNT:
Well, I think the important thing here is all of these are actions which anybody can take that are relevant to their age; staying at home, being tested, or if you’re eligible, to be vaccinated.
I know we’ve been criticised by not having younger people perhaps before so or- the point here is very simple, that this disease can strike anybody, but anybody can help save a life, or risk a life, inadvertently, by their own behaviour.
And so nobody is immune and that’s the very important message, testing and staying at home, fundamental. And vaccination, we do know, has a profound impact.
And just on that, today we’ve had 165,000 vaccinations, just under the record, the highest number of GP doses. We’re now at 9.47 million vaccines in Australia. And over 73 per cent of the over 70s.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay, it’s nine per cent of the population vaccinated, one of the lowest rates.
GREG HUNT:
No, 33.7 per cent of eligible Australians have had a vaccine.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Nine per cent have been fully vaccinated, right?
GREG HUNT:
12.1 per cent of eligible Australians of have done that. And that’s because, like the UK, we have had AstraZeneca as the backbone of our system. And that has a 12-week time between first and second doses. Although for the outbreak zone, the Sydney zone, ATAGI has recommended yesterday that people look at coming forwards between four to eight weeks.
But if you think of this, more than third of Australians have had vaccinations. And in the last week, there were 894,000 Australians, or that’s more than one in 25 Australians who are vaccinated. And yesterday, the equivalent of, within the US, more than 2 million people a day.
In Australia, 165,000. That’s a huge number. So they’re coming forward in very, very large numbers, and we continue to encourage people to do that and we thank them for it.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Greg Hunt is with us. Minister, even if I accept your figure of 12 per cent, it still compares to Israel at 60, Chile at 59, the UK 51. Canada, a country which we often compare ourselves for all sorts of reasons, is at 44. It turns out, from whatever the Prime Minister said earlier on, it is a race isn’t it?
GREG HUNT:
Well, we’re going as fast as we can commensurate with safety and supply. And 33.7 per cent of eligible Australians have had vaccinations. That’s going up very, very significantly. Just as I say a record number of people with GPs in the last 24 hours. The states are playing their part.
We’re seeing a large increase in the number of vaccines that have come through from Pfizer. That’s now being played out with numbers to GPs increasing, numbers to states increasing. And people are coming forward for their second doses for AstraZeneca.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay, but as you yourself say, it’s all dependant on supply. You must have seen on 7:30 the other night, John LaMattina.
GREG HUNT:
I didn’t actually see it, but that’s okay.
RICHARD GLOVER:
I’ll give you a summary, he said it was an unconscionable decision when your Government ordered 10 million doses from Pfizer back in November when you needed 40.
He says he just couldn’t work out why you did that. He says earlier on, in July 2020, as long ago as that, Pfizer approached Australia, Australia took a pass.
GREG HUNT:
No, that’s false. That has been categorically rejected. That is absolutely false. And the head of Pfizer Australia made the point to me that this individual left Pfizer in 2008.
And so, that’s been rejected in evidence before the Senate. That’s been rejected by the Government. That’s been rejected by Pfizer.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay, let’s go to the November thing in that case. 10 million doses, he said we needed 40. Israel, at the same as we ordered our 10, they ordered enough to the whole population. Why didn’t we do that?
GREG HUNT:
Well, we followed the scientific and medical advice. And very significantly, what we also have, we had 51 million University of Queensland. We had 25 million COVAX. We also had, at that point in time, 33.8 million AstraZeneca. And so, we had multiple sources of vaccine, and 30 million Novavax.
So we actually had five different irons in the fire, not just one. Nobody knew which vaccines would be successful. And we were right to have a broad portfolio.
Ultimately, we’ve done six different contracts, and acquired over 190 million vaccines for Australia. Including now, we have 40 million Pfizer. And so, as the scientific advice and evidence has come through, we’ve followed that religiously.
There are some who say we shouldn’t be following the medical advice – that’s what’s kept Australia in a position which is just the envy of the world.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Yeah, look, I don’t think many people are saying that. I think the view is that you don’t put all your eggs in even a couple of baskets, when the downside is so dramatic.
GREG HUNT:
Well, correct.
RICHARD GLOVER:
That we did end up being very reliant on AstraZeneca. It proved to have some problems, particularly with younger people which caused ATAGI to make the recommendations that they made. And at that point, we started to look like we were naked in a storm.
GREG HUNT:
Well, with great respect, you’ve just talked about having multiple options, with which I agree. Which, even at the timeframe that this gentleman – who I think left the company in 2008 – mentioned, we had 10 million Pfizer, 51 million University of Queensland, 25 million COVAX, 33.8 million AstraZeneca, 30 million Novavax.
And we’ve subsequently gone on to acquire 25 Moderna and increase our Pfizer to 40 million. And increase our AstraZeneca to 53.8 million, and our Novavax is up to 51 million.
RICHARD GLOVER:
It’s a pleasing blizzard of numbers. But with respect, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And all the people listening to you, so many people listening to you this afternoon Minister, would say; I can’t get a vaccine at the moment. Or my son and daughter can’t get a vaccine at the moment.
GREG HUNT:
This was always going to be a programme during the course of the year. And we’ve been clear about that throughout. As it is in New Zealand, as it is in other countries, and one of the differences here of course is that because we’ve been so successful in terms of saving lives and protecting lives.
And agonisingly, even yesterday, the UK had 50 lives lost and 36,000 cases. More in one day, in one day, than the entire pandemic in Australia. But because of that, it’s understandable that the Europeans and the North Americans had a particular focus with their vaccines to deal on the spot with mass death that they were facing.
And we understand that, which is why we recognise that it was critical to ensure that we had the sovereign vaccine manufacturing capability in Australia. And we established that. And in addition, had multiple different lines of contract.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay, but just on the subject of it, sorry, I do need to ask at that point, when you say we established the sovereign capability. We did, but not with the mRNA vaccines. Now, Labor and others say that if we’d have started back in March last year, and you know, no one’s saying this is easy stuff.
GREG HUNT:
Sorry, there had never been an mRNA vaccine anywhere in the world for anything last year. And nor was there that capacity. We were able to adapt the CSL production facilities in Broadmeadows to produce the viral vector vaccine. That wasn’t something which could have been adapted to, for the mRNA.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Sure, no, I understand that. But by the time you get to November 2020, and it was becoming obvious that these, the variation mRNA vaccines were getting spectacular results, wasn’t that time to sit down and say, okay, it might cost a billion dollars, but get someone from CSL, or someone else, to start trying to plan a way of making these vaccines in Australia. If not for this pandemic, then for the next one.
GREG HUNT:
And that’s what we’re doing.
RICHARD GLOVER:
But we’ve only started recently.
GREG HUNT:
That’s not correct. We’ve been engaged in that process for some considerable period of time, and we’ve already put out an approach to market. And what has been clear.
RICHARD GLOVER:
I mean, that was, with respect, that was two months ago, not November last year.
GREG HUNT:
But what we’ve done is produced in Australia, we’re one of the few countries in the world that is producing their own vaccines. And we’re producing in Australia, by CSL, what’s called the viral vector vaccine. We’ve been able to ensure that that’s supplemented with a range of other vaccines.
And what’s the big picture here? The big picture here is yesterday, 165,000 vaccinations in Australia, and it is a progressive process. Over 73 percent of the over 70s, 66 per cent of the over 60s, and 57 per cent over 50s. A third of the population has already had vaccinations. And last week alone, more than one in 25 of eligible Australians, of Australian adults, were vaccinated.
And those are very significant numbers offering very significant protections. And today we’ll pass 9.5 million vaccinations completed. And so that’s the reality that we’re facing. We are vaccinating. This is the moment of significant acceleration.
And I want to keep encouraging people to come forward for their first and second doses and thank them for doing so.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Greg Hunt is with us, the Federal Minister for Health. I know you have to go, but just a couple of things.
GREG HUNT:
Yes, we were going to talk about mental health.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Yeah, I want to do that too. Can I just ask about ATAGI and their advice, that moment a few weeks ago, when they moved the target from everyone over 50 got AZ to only over 60s basically got AZ?
That made sense in the absence of any wave, you know, third wave of Delta, but given that it was pretty obvious that we’d get that sort of- the wave that Sydney is currently experiencing, was that slightly misguided advice? Should they have held off on that?
GREG HUNT:
No, I think they’ve done the right thing. And one of the points, and one of my responsibilities, is to give the medical advisers the freedom and the space and the confidence to make medical judgments.
I mean, the idea that we will be stepping in to choose the conditions for a flu vaccine and which flu vaccines is simply wrong. And equally, we have to give our medical advisers the confidence and the freedom to make independent medical judgments. And that’s as they’ve operated.
What they’ve also done is said where there is an outbreak, such as Sydney now, then two things occur: those under 60, if they don’t have access to a Pfizer vaccine, should consider with their doctor whether or not the benefits are sufficient versus the risks for them to take the AstraZeneca; and for AstraZeneca second doses, to bring them forward – instead of 12 weeks in a non-outbreak area to between four and eight weeks.
So if you are listening and you’re due for your second dose, such as Richard.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Yes, I’ve made my appointment, Minister. You don’t need to harangue me. I’m- Monday. Monday at 1 PM.
GREG HUNT:
That’s a perfect example, so let me thank you and praise you for that. And to bring them forward. AstraZeneca’s the vaccine I had and Brendan Murphy and Julia Gillard and so many other Australians.
RICHARD GLOVER:
Okay. Just finally on this, then we’ll move to mental health. But just finally, are ATAGI taking enough account of the fact that constantly changing the message and the requirements maybe, may suit their scientific modelling but it has an unintended consequence of confusing the hell out of people and probably adding a little bit to vaccine hesitancy?
GREG HUNT:
I respectfully disagree. The critical thing here is that the whole pandemic, what is it that’s allowed Australia to be in a position where, even though we’ve had, you know, tragedy by comparison with the rest of the world, I know talking to other health ministers, they say, gosh, we just wish we were in Australia’s position.
It’s because we have adapted to the circumstance with rapid responses. And when the medical advisers review the advice from around the world, they make decisions and they make recommendations. In Australia, they made the recommendations about AstraZeneca.
And yes, that can be difficult, but my job and our job is to give them that freedom to make proper, independent medical advice. And that ultimately is what’s protected Australia.
RICHARD GLOVER:
We’re talking to Greg Hunt, the Federal Minister for Health. Can I just make an observation about this second lockdown that Sydney’s going through? I think we’re all coping a little worse than we did the first time around. I’m basing that on myself, on listeners who have talked to me.
The sort of novelty, it was terrible first time around, of course it was, but there was people facing this thing for the first time were arranging little Zoom contests and conversations with their family.
They were trying to be as chipper as they could under the circumstances. It seems to me that we’ve lost our mojo. We’re all in a state of great sadness this time around that is deeper than it was first time around.
Do you see it that way?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I do know that it will have different impacts on different people. The first point is we know we can do this. We know we can get through this. And so that gives a lot of people a great deal of heart.
The second is, because it’s prolonged, many will struggle. And that’s why we’ve put in place just this week a 17.5 million dollar mental health package with New South Wales.
And that’s focused on young people with headspace support. If you do have issues and challenges, please go to headspace and call them up. These are Lifeline, Sonder, and of course, Beyond Blue. They’ve all been supported.
One of the other things that’s extremely important is funding for the Butterfly Foundation. One thing that Christine Morgan has highlighted – she’s the National Mental Health Commissioner – eating disorders have been particularly prevalent during COVID and lockdowns. And that affects- could affect anybody, but it especially affects women and especially affects younger women.
And so that support for eating disorders was a critical part of what we announced this week. So please pick up the phone, whether it’s to Beyond Blue’s coronavirus well-being support service, that’s 1800 512 348, 1800 512 348. Or you just go to Beyond Blue or Lifeline or Kids Helpline or headspace. All of these things can help you.
RICHARD GLOVER:
That’s one of the things that should make as proud as Australians. We take mental health seriously in a way we didn’t before. And it’s one of the things we are getting right. Minister, thank you very much for your time this afternoon.
GREG HUNT:
Thanks, Richard.
RICHARD GLOVER:
There’s Greg Hunt. He’s the Federal Minister for Health here on ABC Radio.
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