E&OE….
Topics: US-China Climate Deal, Emissions Reduction Fund, G20
FRAN KELLY:
But first we’re joined by the Federal Environment Minister, Greg Hunt. Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.
GREG HUNT:
Good morning Fran.
FRAN KELLY:
Minister, over the weekend as we heard, the US President issued a rallying cry to young Australians to demand more action on climate change here in Australia. Now WA Premier Colin Barnett has endorsed the President.
The West Australian newspaper quotes the WA Premier saying ‘we need to be bolder in our emissions targets’. Will you heed his calls?
GREG HUNT:
Well in fact we have just passed a $2.5 billion climate fund which if that were in the US economy on a like-for-like basis that would be roughly a $25 billion fund for the US to match. We’ve just passed one of the most significant pieces of climate legislation in Australian history.
We’re reducing emissions without a tax. We would urge Bill Shorten to support, rather than reject, the investment we’re making. He’s saying he wants to bring back an electricity tax and then to rise the level of that tax. That’s a matter for him but the Australian people would judge it, but right now only two weeks ago, we have just passed some of the most significant legislation in Australia’s history.
We invest, they want to raise taxes. You know, for them they see climate change as a revenue opportunity, we see it as a duty to invest in practical things.
FRAN KELLY:
With respect though Minister, you kept using terms to describe the Direct Action policy as significant, one of the most ambitious packages and yet here’s the WA Premier, who’s a Liberal Premier to boot, from a resource-rich state, saying this is a call to arms, we need to lift our game. He’s not convinced that Direct Action is as ambitious as you suggest.
GREG HUNT:
Well there’s a very strange situation here and I don’t in any way accept the way that you have characterised Premier Barnett’s comments…
FRAN KELLY:
They were direct quotes. A call to arms for all of us to lift our game – that’s a direct quote.
GREG HUNT:
But you just said that he reflected on the Direct Action programme. Did he?
FRAN KELLY:
Well he’s suggesting that we need to do more. We need to lift our game.
GREG HUNT:
Did he reflect on the Direct Action programme?
FRAN KELLY:
I have no idea, but he said we need to lift our game…
GREG HUNT:
You just said he did. But Fran, you just said he attacked our Direct Action programme…
FRAN KELLY:
Sorry Minister, what I was saying, the point that I was making was that he was looking at what we’re currently doing and said we need to lift our game.
GREG HUNT:
So you attributed something to him which he didn’t say. You now have to concede that. Yes?
FRAN KELLY:
Alright Minister I’m happy to concede that. What I’m going to and asking you is do you agree we need to lift our game?
GREG HUNT:
Well we are doing more. We have said that we’ll also consider the post-2020 period. But let’s be frank about what Australia has done. Of all of the countries who are part of the first Kyoto Protocol period, there are very few that not only met their target, but exceeded them by 6%.
So we’ve achieved our targets and we beat them by 6%. Other countries made pledges and then failed to meet them. So in the real world, we not only met our targets, we exceeded them by a very significant amount – 130 million tonnes better than we had pledged to the world that we can and should do. And that, I think, is the only thing that the atmosphere experiences – actual emissions levels.
During the same period, what we see is that the United States emissions went from almost 5.4 billion to just over 5.9 billion tonnes and China’s emissions from 1990 to 2010 went from 3.3 billion to 9.7 billion tonnes. Now this isn’t being critical at all. This is a reality of the way the two largest economies in the world have operated.
But during that period, we achieved our targets, we beat our targets, we banked an extra 130 million tonnes on behalf of the planet and now we’ve just invested one of the largest sums in Australian history and by global comparative basis something of great significance.
FRAN KELLY:
But there’s no doubt that this is a story which needs continuing action as noted by the IPCC report just a week or two ago and in the real world, the US and China have now announced lifting future action on their part. The US announcing it will cut emissions by 26 to 28 percent of 2005 levels by 2025.
Can you tell us whether Australia will go near to matching that commitment?
GREG HUNT:
Well the first thing is if you look at this in two halves – pre-2020 and post-2020.
FRAN KELLY:
But I’m looking at post…
GREG HUNT:
Well I’d like to put it in context…
FRAN KELLY:
…we know what our 2020 target is and we agree on that it’s 5%…
GREG HUNT:
No, no it’s not actually. If you use the same basis as the United States, 2005 to 2020, the US is minus 17, we’re minus 12%.
FRAN KELLY:
Ok.
GREG HUNT:
If you use the full Kyoto period from 1990 to 2020, the US is minus 5% and Australia is almost exactly the same. So we’re very comparable.
FRAN KELLY:
But if you use the current target announced by the US of 26% of 2005 levels by 2025, scientists and economists agree that works out to about a 28% cut to emissions by Australia. Do you accept that?
GREG HUNT:
Well I think what you’ll find is that we have committed to being part of and I deeply embrace the process of being part of the Paris Conference at the end of next year. Julie Bishop will be leading Australia at Lima, which is the predecessor conference or the next step in only a few weeks.
Only last week we held and hosted and brought together an Asia Pacific Rainforest Summit aimed at protecting the great forests of the region, which is about making a real contribution to reducing emissions in our own region with Australia as the global lead country.
As we go into next year, of course we’re going to be part of that process and of course we’ll set targets in relation to the post-2020 period on exactly the timeframe we always said we would. Jane Goodall, one of the world’s great…
FRAN KELLY:
Which is the first quarter of next year. Will we meet that timetable?
GREG HUNT:
We are setting targets in the first part of next year. I won’t put a specific date on it today. We’ve always said that we would do that next year. We’ve never deviated from that. We will do that.
Jane Goodall, one of the world’s great conservationists, in addressing the Rainforest Summit via video last week said that there’s nothing that the world could do that is a faster, more successful way of helping reduce emissions and protecting the great forests as well as protecting the biological arcs of our region and other regions and there’s Australia, of all the countries in the world, right at the forefront.
This is an incredibly important role so we are leading the world in rainforest protection, we’re leading the world in terms of the things that can reduce emissions from fossil fuels by helping to clean up the power stations. Something which, by the way, was at the centre of the China deal, where they talked about steps to clean-up coal-fired power stations.
FRAN KELLY:
Will we, just on that front Minister, will we need to close down some coal-fired power stations in order to lift our cut in emissions? I noticed over the weekend the Prime Minister declaring to the G20 leaders he was there to stand-up for coal.
At the same time as Australia is exporting record amounts of coal, or preparing to export record amounts of coal. Will we be needing to necessarily close down some coal-fired power stations?
GREG HUNT:
Well, look that’s not our proposal. What we’re focused on is whatever will deliver the cheapest, fastest emissions reductions for Australia. So only last Friday we released new methods for the Emissions Reduction Fund for large scale energy efficiency for households on a grand scale. It could be 10,000 or 100,000 households together.
Large-scale commercial and industrial energy efficiency right across our factories and cleaning them up. We will also be looking at how we clean up our power stations. I know in relation to the Emissions Reduction Fund power stations themselves are looking very seriously at how they reduce our emissions and this is as opposed to a Labor Party which gave, although the Left never talks about it, gave $5.5 billion to the great Victorian brown coal power stations.
And it’s an incredible thing. They literally gave away $5.5 billion to keep these brown coal power stations running…
FRAN KELLY:
Alright Minister. I just trying…
GREG HUNT:
We’re providing…
FRAN KELLY:
I’m just trying to move forward because were almost out of time. Just on the other element of the G20 communiqué – there was a reference to the Green Climate Fund and it said we reaffirm our support for mobilising finance for adaptation and mitigation, such as the Green Climate Fund.
Now will Australia contribute to the Green Climate Fund? This is the Fund the Prime Minister once described as ‘socialism masquerading as environmentalism’.
GREG HUNT:
Well firstly, as I say, we just contributed $2.55 billion to reducing emissions at home…
FRAN KELLY:
No, but will we – I understand that but…
GREG HUNT:
The communiqué…
FRAN KELLY:
…this is the global outlook. Will we do that?
GREG HUNT:
…a variety of international measures and only last week I announced and we delivered funding for the regional approach to reducing emissions through protecting forests, so we are focussed internationally…
FRAN KELLY:
But that’s a no on the Climate Fund then?
GREG HUNT:
…there are a variety of mechanisms. I know Mr Shorten is opposed to investing in emissions in Australia and wants to
FRAN KELLY:
With respect Minister, I’m not talking about Mr Shorten, I’m talking about what Ban Ki Moon has called on all the G20 nations to do. Is Australia of a mind to do that or not?
GREG HUNT:
Look, our approach has been to focus primarily domestically, but just last week – and for some reason the ALP and some on the Left choose to ignore it – we contributed, we led an international approach where we provided funding for reducing deforestation in our region.
FRAN KELLY:
Greg Hunt, thank you very much for joining us on Breakfast.
GREG HUNT:
Thanks very much Fran.
(ENDS)