E&OE….
Topics: Iraq, climate change, Abbot Point, Renewable Energy Target
TOM TILLEY:
It’s time to speak to the Environment Minister, Greg Hunt, and with questions over our commitment to carbon reduction, dredging on the Great Barrier Reef and the review of the Renewable Energy Target, there is so much to talk about.
Greg Hunt, thank you so much for joining us.
GREG HUNT:
It’s a pleasure.
TOM TILLEY:
Now, Greg Hunt, before we move onto the environmental issues, given you’re a senior member of Cabinet, we would love to talk to you about a few other big items in the news today, and we spoke to a number of Muslims on our programme yesterday who were offended by Tony Abbott’s comments about the burqa.
Do you think Tony Abbott’s comments contradicted his own call for national unity?
GREG HUNT:
Oh look, respectfully, no. He has gone out of his way to work with the Muslim community, the Islamic community to praise the leaders who are off the mainstream and to make it clear that he is very much for the basic freedoms in this space. People will agree or disagree with some things he says, but he’s again and again reaffirmed his support for the deep fundamental principles of diversity and freedom in this company.
TOM TILLEY:
But one of your own colleagues, even Andrew Laming, said that Tony Abbott allowed the debate to ferment, which makes people feel alienated and gives other moderate Muslims more reason to feel that Australia is not a place where they feel welcome. Do you think it was a mistake to add fuel to the fire on a debate started by Jacqui Lambie and Cory Bernardi.
GREG HUNT:
Look, I don’t think you’ve represented Andrew fairly and I don’t think that that’s a fair representation of what the Prime Minister has done at all. This is somebody who only a couple of weeks ago was in Indigenous Australia doing something that he has done since long before he was Prime Minister and I will bet he will do long after he’s Prime Minister.
His commitment to the differing communities, whether they are Indigenous, whether they are from different parts of the world – from the Middle East, from Africa, from Asia – is absolutely deep and strong and profound, and remember this – he has taken a profound step to say that we can’t sit on the sidelines whilst the genocide of Shia and Yazidis as well as Christians and others, is occurring in northern Iraq.
You know, there’s a genocide in a place far, far away from Australia, and I know that he’s taken this as a deep weight and personal responsibility, that it’s not something we can wash our hands of, it’s profound and it’s real and it’s important, and that’s part of his commitment to this community.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay. Well, let’s talk in more detail about the deployment of our fighter jets and military officers to Iraq. Now, two weeks ago, we sent military personnel and resources, including six hundred troops and eight super hornet jets to Dubai, ready for service in Iraq.
Today, Iraq’s ambassador to Australia says a request for our combat forces could still take more than a week, so that means it could be three weeks or more of waiting in Dubai. Were we too keen to get to war?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I – again, I respectfully reject the presumptions. What we are absolutely committed to doing is being part of a broad-based international coalition, which includes Middle Eastern states, European states, you know, ourselves and others from North America, which says that we simply can’t accept something which is both a genuine threat to security around the world but is also an ongoing genocide, and our role early has been a very important catalyst for other states being part of it.
Having that breadth of support from within Middle Eastern and Arabic countries, I think, has been an exceptionally important part of the international coalition’s response.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay. But my question was really pointed at how quickly we reacted before we got the full approval to actually, you know, use the jets to launch air missiles, and we’ve been waiting there for two weeks in Dubai. Do you think we moved too early?
GREG HUNT:
No. If anything, we’ve provided an exemplar to the world of how quickly things can be positioned, of the importance of being prepared, and we’ve been playing a supporting role. The – not just the United States, but Arab countries and others have been involved in airborne action. We’ve had an early warning aircraft in the air in a supporting role.
We’ve had a refueller in the air in a supporting role. But we don’t rush to military action, and I’m surprised that you would imply that we should rush to military action before everything is done. We do do …
TOM TILLEY:
No. I’m not implying that we should but I’m wondering if we have rushed it, because we’ve sent these forces, they’ve been waiting for two weeks in Dubai. It could be at least another week according to Iraq’s ambassador to Australia. Did we move too fast, that’s my question?
GREG HUNT:
No, it would be ludicrous if we didn’t have the forces there. They prepare, they acclimatise, they train, they interact with other members of the international coalition. And as we already know, two of our high-tech, highly valuable air assets, planes, one early warning, one refuelling, have been in the air, working, and the other forces I would not underestimate the degree of preparation and work that they are doing with other states to help support what the international coalition is endeavouring to do, and that’s to stop a genocide.
Which is not just genocide – which is an extraordinarily horrific thing at any time – but it’s the forced sexual slavery and servitude of young women and girls, and this isn’t something which relates to any religion, it’s a group of barbaric, you know, beasts who are using young women, who are using women in an abusive, unconscionable way.
These are effectively crimes against humanity, as well as genocide. And the idea that we don’t move as quickly as possible, whether to be supportive, or whether to be engaged in action if a decision was finally taken on that, is anathema to me.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay. You are listening to Greg Hunt, who is the Environment Minister. We’ve been talking about some of the bigger issues outside of his portfolio. But let’s turn our attention to the environment. If you have a question for Greg Hunt, you can call right now and put it directly to him. Here’s the numbers. Call 1300 055 536 or text 0439 757 555
TOM TILLEY:
All right, Greg Hunt. Last week in New York the UN held a Climate Summit, attended by leaders and ministers of developed and developing nations from around the world. Here are some of the key moments:
Excerpt begins
BARACK OBAMA:
For all the immediate challenges that we gather to address this week, terrorism, instability, inequality, there’s one issue that will define the contours of this century more dramatically than any other, and that is the urgent and growing threat of a changing climate. But we can only succeed in combating climate change if we are joined in this effort by every nation, developed and developing alike. Nobody gets a pass.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
Please welcome Mr Leonardo DiCaprio.
LEONARDO DiCAPRIO:
I stand before you not as an expert, but as a concerned citizen. Every week we’re seeing new and undeniable climate events, evidence that accelerated climate change is here right now. This body, perhaps more than any other gathering in human history, now faces this difficult but achievable task. You can make history or you will be vilified by it.
Excerpt ends
TOM TILLEY:
Very strong words there from Leo DiCaprio to the sounds of Titanic. Now, Greg Hunt given that we’ve scrapped the carbon price in Australia but we haven’t yet replaced it with your Government’s Emissions Reduction Fund, are we leader or laggards in the international effort on climate change?
GREG HUNT:
No, we’ll achieve our targets, and I’m committed to this absolutely. It is an extraordinary situation that at the moment the ALP and the Greens are standing in the way of a two and a half billion dollar carbon reduction fund. For all of the talk, why would they oppose two and a half billion dollars to clean up power stations, to clean up waste coal mine gas, to clean up waste landfill gas, which is the form of methane is an extraordinarily powerful greenhouse gas, to deploy energy efficiency on a grand scal,; to help ensure that our landscape is a carbon sink.
And there are 159 existing carbon farming projects which will be at risk if this isn’t passed. Our material is in the Senate, it’s ready to go. There is a fund which will do real and profound things to help clean up our environment and reduce our emissions. Why that’s being blocked, for the life of me, I can’t understand.
TOM TILLEY:
Well, do you have any proof that those programs will actually ensure that we achieve our goal of a five per cent reduction in carbon emissions by 2020?
GREG HUNT:
Well, sure, by definition these are ways of purchasing actual genuine emissions reduction. When the Labor Party had in place a scheme where they gave money to random firms through a clean technology program, where they weren’t purchasing the lowest costs emissions reduction, the Greens embraced it, they endorsed it.
Now we actually have a two and a half billion dollar fund targeted at the highest volume returns in terms of emissions reduction. It’s really quite bizarre that the two groups, who say they want to do something about climate, are standing in the way of real climate action, to clean up power stations, to reduce emissions to reduce industrial pollution and emissions.
It’s a very inexplicable position because the funds have been allocated, the legislation has been through the House of Representatives. I want to clean things up.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay.
GREG HUNT:
Because the carbon tax wasn’t doing it. It was just an electricity tax. That’s the problem with it.
TOM TILLEY:
Keith is calling in from Gladstone. Keith, you have got a question for the Minister?
CALLER KEITH:
Hello.
TOM TILLEY:
Good day, Keith. What’s your question for Greg Hunt?
CALLER KEITH:
My question is whether the Government is going to change their policies (inaudible) where people are calling for more and bigger – more ambitious targets (inaudible).
TOM TILLEY:
All right. Keith, thanks for the question and just in case you couldn’t hear it through the breaking up of the phone there, Greg Hunt, he was talking about whether our Government will consider a bigger target than a five per cent carbon reduction by 2020, given the bigger targets that a lot of other countries are aiming for.
GREG HUNT:
So the conference at the end of next year is about the trajectory – largely about the trajectory post 2020. We will go into that in good faith. I was involved in discussions with Ministers from different nations in recent weeks and I have stressed to all of them and I have stressed to the Foreign Correspondents Association in Australia only today that we want a good global agreement.
We want to be part of a good global agreement and that means that we will look in a very constructive way at what Australia will do post 2020. But right now we are one of the handful of countries in the world that’s on track to meet our targets and we did it the first time in the…
TOM TILLEY:
Is that because our…
GREG HUNT:
… in the Kyoto one period and we will do it the second time …
TOM TILLEY:
Is that because our targets…
GREG HUNT:
… in the Kyoto two.
TOM TILLEY:
… are relatively low compared to a lot of other countries?
GREG HUNT:
Well, this, of course, is one of the great myths. There’s bipartisan support on the science and bipartisan support on the targets. When you track from 1990 to 2020, our minus five is 22 per cent below what would have been business as usual. More significantly still, it’s almost identical to what the US is actually doing over that 30 year period.
The US is sometimes benchmarked against 2005, but when you look at the full period from 1990 to 2020, the two targets and two trajectories are almost identical. By comparison, you see the greatest growth in emissions in human history in a series of the developed countries which are now dwarfing what’s happening elsewhere. We had a historic role. I believe in that deeply and profoundly.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay.
GREG HUNT:
But we are reducing our emissions and we’ll achieve our targets, and we’re going to host an Asia Pacific Rainforest Summit as part of our contribution to achieving a good global agreement which includes real action to protect the world’s rainforests, both the biodiversity and reducing emissions purposes.
TOM TILLEY:
All right. You are listening to the Environment Minister, Greg Hunt, on Triple Js Hack programme. I want to move to a different topic, Greg Hunt. Abbott Point, the coal port expansion there, near the town of Bowen in Queensland. Now, there was a lot of concern from environmental groups about your approval in December to dump dredge spoil within the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park from that project.
It has now been revealed that the companies behind the development are looking to dump the dredge onshore, and environmental advocates are happy about that. Is this a better outcome for the environment?
GREG HUNT:
Well, this is something I have worked for from day one. It’s important to understand this – we have had a radical seachange in policy; a once in century – a once in a hundred year change. The practise for 100 years has been if there was dredging in the Barrier Reef lagoon the size of Germany, then what would occur is that, for the most part, it was sand taken from that area and placed in the marine park.
I inherited five major projects from Queensland Labor and from the Federal Labor Party – from Gladstone to Balaclava Island, to Hay Point to Abbott Point to Townsville, all of which were going to involve dumping of significant bodies of – of dredge spoil in the marine park. That’s over. All five are off the table in terms of spoil in the marine park.
That’s something that I have worked for. Four I was able to do in conjunction with Queensland and the proponents reasonably quickly. The fifth one we worked on all the way through and I’m thrilled at the outcome and it is a radical seachange in policy and it’s happened on our watch.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay. So does that mean there will be no further dredge spoil being dumped in the Great Barrier Marine Park going forward?
GREG HUNT:
That’s absolutely the policy that I set out. I set that out last year, that we weren’t going to have any of these capital dredging proposals to have spoil in the marine park. So it’s not just a policy…
TOM TILLEY:
So why was approval given in December for the Abbot Point dredging?
GREG HUNT:
Well, you have got to realise this and I do have a question for you – did you ever question the previous Labor Ministers? I suspect the answer is no. They announced the project. They put out the tenements. They proceeded through all of the different stages. It was a 34 stage process, 33 stages were completed and approved by the previous Labor Government. Under the law, there had to be a decision made.
They know they had punted it until just after the election and we received this, looked for alternatives but all the advice and the scientific advice is still the same, is that what we did was the safest of the options because at that stage there was no available land space that could be safely done because of the risk of acid sulphate.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay.
GREG HUNT:
Two things have changed. One is a critical piece of industrial land became available and, secondly, a new technology which instead of having acid sulphate processes emerge over an 18 month period, dries it within six weeks. Doesn’t have the acid sulphate problem and so we get the best of all possible worlds.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay. You are listening to Greg Hunt, the Environment Minister. I want to move on to talk about the Renewable Energy Target and Tim from Sydney has a question about the solar industry. Tim?
CALLER TIM:
G’day everybody. Yes, Mr Hunt, I was just wondering whether you considered – considered in your policies planning the fact that it’s a lot cheaper just not to put the CO2 into the atmosphere in the first place rather than trying to, sort of, go about – mentioning – you know – I suppose my point being is that decentralising our networks and bringing solar on board and wind on board to be used, obviously, on the right weather conditions, and just having the coal-fired generation backing us up is not only the cheapest way to deliver energy in Australia or a much cheaper than centralised – the old centralised system. And I just wondered…
GREG HUNT:
Okay.
CALLER TIM:
… wonder if you have looked in – my question is a bit muddled, I’m sorry …
TOM TILLEY:
No, that’s fine, Tim.
CALLER TIM:
… but I just wondered if you have looked into the numbers, you know, because the numbers doesn’t stack up for centralised fossil fuel generation.
TOM TILLEY:
Okay, Tim, thanks for the call. I think essentially the point is there, which form of energy is the cheapest, Greg Hunt?
GREG HUNT:
Sure. Look, it’s very clear that – that renewables have an extremely important role going forward. I’m a supporter of the Renewable Energy Target, but it has to be balanced and sustainable. The answer is that renewable energy…
TOM TILLEY:
So when you say you’re a supporter, does that mean you won’t be taking the recommendation that says to scrap it? You are going to definitely keep a Renewable Energy Target?
GREG HUNT:
Well, I’ve said on many occasions that we are not scrapping the RET, and I will repeat it today. Now, a lot of this – and I understand it – is the repetition of arguments by the ALP or the Greens, and that’s part of the process. But we created the RET. They created a phantom credit scheme which has caused all of the trouble.
They created the problems with the overnight scrapping of the solar rebate, the overnight scrapping of the solar hot water rebate, and they created the Home Insulation Programme, which, as we saw from the recent Royal Commission, was catastrophic for small business, for the sector and, most of all, for the families of those involved.
So the recent record has been of grand announcements but chaos created in the sector. My approach and our approach is to have a long term sustainable path for renewables, to do it in a way which is achievable, but to try to do it in a way which doesn’t put undue pressure on the costs of living for low income families, for pensioners, for students, for young people.
TOM TILLEY:
All right, Greg Hunt. Unfortunately we are out of time. Lots of questions we’d love to keep on asking you, but thank you so much for your time today.
GREG HUNT:
No. Look, I enjoy the conversation. I – I know my nephew, Henry Hunt, listens to this, and, you know, he’s always trying to call in, and so you’ll have to give him a chance to ask me a tough and…
TOM TILLEY:
Yes. Head to head.
GREG HUNT:
… a challenging question.
TOM TILLEY:
Hunt versus Hunt. All right, Greg Hunt. Thank you very much.
GREG HUNT:
He’s a good fella.
TOM TILLEY:
All right.
GREG HUNT:
Okay. Take care, and we’ll speak again.
TOM TILLEY:
Catch you later. That is all we have time for.
(ENDS)