E&OE….
Topics: Climate change
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
We're joined now by the Environment Minister Greg Hunt.
GREG HUNT:
Good morning Michael.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Good morning. This modelling was done well before the last election. The Climate Change Authority back then said that the 40 to 60 per cent cut would be required to meet a bipartisan goal of preventing two degrees of warming. Are you not committed to the two degree figure?
GREG HUNT:
Well we want a good global agreement and we want that outcome, but what we see here is that over recent weeks Labor aligned itself specifically through an amendment at its conference with the Climate Change Authority target of minus 40 to minus 60 per cent…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
But nothing specific was adopted.
GREG HUNT:
Well actually an amendment to section 249 of the Labor Party conference was express, clear and absolute. What does that mean? That means $600 billion on Labor's modelling for Labor's target, using Labor's carbon tax by 2030 – $5,000 almost, over $4,900 per family, per year, by 2030; and a 78 per cent increase in wholesale electricity prices on a $209 carbon tax. Their modelling, their figures, their target.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
We'll get to modelling in a minute, but the conference didn't adopt the 40 to 60 per cent figure.
GREG HUNT:
Well let me refer you to amendment 249a of the ALP conference, express, clear, absolute. I know they're trying to run from their own decision. Around the country they have been trumpeting the 40 to 60 per cent figure and now the moment they're called to account on it they're ashamed, they're trying to hide it and yet the figures are there. Their modelling, their figures…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well they say they haven't…
GREG HUNT:
…nearly $5,000 per household.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well they say they haven't committed to a figure but nonetheless…
GREG HUNT:
Well what is their figure then?
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well they haven't put it out yet. That's the point.
GREG HUNT:
It is minus 40 to minus 60 which they've trumpeted ever since the conference.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Nonetheless this modelling was done before the last election but…
GREG HUNT:
By Treasury and the Department of Industry.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Okay, exactly, exactly. And they said that to prevent two degrees of warming, 40 to 60 per cent would be necessary. So you're saying that 40 to 60 per cent is too much?
GREG HUNT:
Look Australia has to do its fair share. It has to be strong and it has to be credible. But what we see here is the ALP has officially adopted a figure of minus 40 to 60 per cent…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
That argument goes round and round because they say they haven't so…
GREG HUNT:
They can play games of sophistry…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
…so let's focus on the model.
GREG HUNT:
They have been trumpeting that figure right around the country, and what does it mean for families? Because this is what really matters. It means over $4,900 per year by 2030, 78 per cent increase in wholesale electricity prices and more than $200 carbon tax.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
That modelling is now nearly four years old. It doesn't include any change in the emissions mix that we've seen, the decline in electricity demand due to the decline in manufacturing, and the big increase in renewables. So, I mean, it's, every government does modelling but it doesn't necessarily, it doesn't relate to what's happening now.
GREG HUNT:
Well this is Labor's own modelling of their own policy using their own carbon tax.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
That's four years old now.
GREG HUNT:
It could not be stronger and clearer. It's not that old, but more to the point, more to the point, if they have different figures, produce it. Because what have they been doing here?
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well they are the Opposition, you're the Government…
GREG HUNT:
Saying one thing to the public and the moment they are called to account they are denying their policy and denying the impact. Here's the choice for Australians – do we want strong and credible action, but with a massive electricity price on the one hand, or without, on the other?
We have a very different approach. We've already seen the most arguably the most effective Emissions Reduction Fund auction in the world. They have a massive electricity tax that's coming, whether it's fixed or floating. This is using their floating price of over $200 per tonne. Families will pay.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well let's focus on what you're going to do. You're the Government. You're going to come out with your commitments in the lead-up to Paris this week. Now presumably you won't say what they are. But are you still committed to keeping temperatures below the two degree mark?
GREG HUNT:
Well this is a global goal to be achieved.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
But what is your goal? Are you still committed to it?
GREG HUNT:
No we are part of that global goal, but that doesn't mean we necessarily adopt these targets in any way shape or form.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
How do you get there then if you don't adopt real targets?
GREG HUNT:
Well what the Paris conference will do is bring the world significantly towards that outcome. The French, to their absolute credit, have set the goal of making real progress towards the two degree target and we support, endorse and embrace that.
But what we see here is two very different paths – one of a nearly $5,000 per household hit; the other where we see that we are making credible, strong, effective reductions in emissions through directly targeting emission reductions.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well I think we can make those judgements once we know what your aspirations are and what theirs are.
GREG HUNT:
Well we've already achieved 47 million tonnes of reductions at under $14 per tonne from what has been not just a successful auction but a stunningly successful approach as opposed to massively higher electricity prices, massively lower household costs…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Will you release your model?
GREG HUNT:
Of course we'll deal with the costs, but we already have, we already have not just modelling, we have a real world 47 million tonne, $13.95 per tonne reduction. That's not a model exercise. That's the reality of a highly effective policy achieving reductions.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Okay, just quickly, let's look at the politics. Now polls show the Government, these latest polls show the Government is out of touch with voters on climate change.
Sixty-three per cent say the Abbott Government should take the issue more seriously. Seventy per cent agree that coal fired energy generation would eventually need replacing.
GREG HUNT:
Well what we see is that we need to clean up our emissions but we need to do it in a way which is sustainable and which is acceptable and affordable.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
You need to do it in a way which contains the temperature increases to below two degrees, don't you?
GREG HUNT:
Here's what's interesting. Australia is actually one of the few countries to have met and beat our Kyoto I targets from 2008 to 2012, to be on track to meet and beat our 2012 to 2020 target. I remember just 18 to 24 months ago all the critics were saying you'll never reach your 2020 targets. Now people are realising that we were right. We had the right plan and we're doing it.
Labor by contrast wants to bring back a carbon tax. Now they can call it a fixed price or a floating price but now is the time with an election a year away for them to be honest. But they've been caught red-handed with their hands on the income of Australian families and the electricity bills of Australian families.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well let's talk about the politics of it again because clearly this polling suggests that a lot of people in the community feel the Government isn't doing enough.
Now do you – on the one hand you've got the community expectations there, presumably you've got people in your own party saying don't go too hard, don't do too much. What sort of a goal can we expect? What sort of an aspiration can we expect?
GREG HUNT:
The right balance is to be strong and credible and that's what we'll achieve. But the right policy – and this is critical – is not to be driving up the cost of electricity and driving down income for families because to your listeners and to Australians more generally I would say that what we’ve seen now is that Labor's policy will result in a near $5,000 decrease in household income, a 78 per cent increase in wholesale electricity prices…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
I think we're all interested to see what your policy is. Presumably your aspirations are coming out…
GREG HUNT:
…and a $600 billion dollar hit to the national economy. Our policy couldn't be clearer…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Well we don't know what…
GREG HUNT:
Our policy is the Emissions Reduction Fund, which has been successful, is our fundamental pillar, not just between now and 2030 but for as long as we have influence over this space.
We have a clear, stable policy which is completely up-front. Labor can't stand by their own target now, they can't stand by their own modelling. They need to be honest as to…
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
But we will see your…
GREG HUNT:
…their own target and their own modelling. They've been caught red handed.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
We will see your post 2020 emissions reduction targets this week then?
GREG HUNT:
That was always coming this month.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
Okay Greg Hunt we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us.
GREG HUNT:
Thanks very much Michael.
MICHAEL BRISSENDEN:
And that's the Environment Minister Greg Hunt there.
(ENDS)