E&OE….
Topics: Great Barrier Reef, climate change, marriage equality
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
It's a long way from the Peninsula to Bonn in Germany. But that is where Greg Hunt is, far from his seat here in Melbourne. He's the Minister for the Environment, part of Tony Abbott's Federal Government. Greg Hunt, welcome to the show.
GREG HUNT:
And good afternoon Raf.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Tell me, you've got to have been happy with that outcome for the verdict not in danger.
GREG HUNT:
Yeah, look, I really was delighted with the outcome. But more than just the fact that 21 countries unanimously as the expert body of the World Heritage Committee voted against ‘in danger’, they've taken Australia off a watch list we were put on in 2011, and 2012 and 2013, returned us to the annual- to the normal five year reporting cycle. But most significantly, every one of the countries praised Australia's management of the Great Barrier Reef.
Germany, which is the Chair of the World Heritage Committee this year, went out of its way to declare that Australia was a role model to the world, as to how we manage World Heritage natural sites. Other countries talked about Australia walking the extra mile.
So it was an incredible feeling inside what was the old West German Parliament, when country after country responded to the issues that were set down four and five years ago and said that Australia had made a real turnaround in the physical condition of the Reef and which set out a plan to 2050. And we should be a role model and we are a role model for the world and others should look to us. So that was just a great moment for Australia.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
There's some reporting that you were disappointed that there's a, I guess, a report back in 18 months, not after five years, so at the end of next year. Do you consider that a small loss or is that a problem for you at all?
GREG HUNT:
No, I hadn't heard that. No, we're back to a five year reporting cycle. I actually proposed when I met with the Director-General of UNESCO in April, that we should put in what's called an investment update on how we're going with the $2 billion that we have looking forwards over a decade and the additional $200 million that we've just announced with Queensland for water quality.
We were meant to do that in essentially two year's time. We actually tabled that report, or the first part of that report, this week, which has stunned everybody. They're just delighted. They've said wow, you're- you know, way ahead of schedule, you're so far- so much more advanced that we'd ever anticipated.
So it was something that we proposed as an update rather than waiting the five years. And people might say things like that but I hadn't heard that report and the answer is we're being held up to the world as a model to follow.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
It's been a pretty willing debate Greg Hunt and you've had some critical things to say to some of the green groups – would you concede that any of that really willing debate has helped prompt any extra action out of the Federal Government and the two different State Governments, or not?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I do think – and I said on the floor of the UNESCO meeting – that the World Heritage Convention process, which is overseen by the World Heritage Committee – allowed us to do in 18 months what might have taken a decade at best. So, you know, this process has worked for Australia and there are critics a part of that and I accept that – you know I love that sort of democratic debate, you and I have willing debates from time to time – but that's just immensely important for the country.
But the umpire has spoken and could not have been more categorical but most importantly, it's allowed us to put in a place a permanent ban on capital dredge disposal in the Great Barrier Reef. Something that people thought might never happen and if it were to happen it could have taken a decade or longer. And this process allowed that and it allowed us to secure the additional $200 million. And so the process has helped, no question, and I've unashamedly tried to take the opportunity presented to do the things you'd want to do once in a career.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Can I ask you about the potential targets for Australia's emissions reductions beyond 2020?
GREG HUNT:
Sure, of course.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
The Climate Change Authority I think put out figures today that they'd previously stated in an interim report: 40 per cent by 2030 at least on 2000 levels. Which I think is similar to what Ross Garnaut has been talking about. Is that sort of anywhere in the Government's ballpark?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I won't speculate on particular figures. We've been on a bipartisan minus 5 per cent by 2020 against our 2000 base…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Yeah.
GREG HUNT:
…that actually equates to minus 13 per cent when you use the same as- the same starting point of 2005 as other countries, particularly the United States. So we're doing much better than people might necessarily be led to understand. And we're actually in a very good position – we're on track in terms of policy because the first of the Emissions Reduction Fund options were so successful in producing 47 million tonnes of very significant real emissions reductions. That means we've got greater opportunity to reduce emissions. So we'll have a very credible and significant outcome…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Does credible mean a lot larger than that 5 per cent cut?
GREG HUNT:
…look, I am confident that we can do better – yes, absolutely, we can do better. And all of the support right across the different parts of the Government is for achieving a better outcome. I won't speculate and pre-empt the Cabinet…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Sure.
GREG HUNT:
…which will address this in the coming weeks, but we're in a very good position. What's happened is obviously we've been able to take the pressure off people's electricity prices. But by replacing the carbon tax with a system that actually works, the Emissions Reduction Fund, what's come about is- I'm being asked about it wherever I go that Australia's had this massively successful auction with 47 million tonnes of reduction – that's something that people are sitting up and noticing all around the world, on top of what we've done with the Reef. So it's been a really good outcome…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Can I ask if- do we need a common baseline? Because if you simply look at, you know, America's pronouncements, by 2025, you mentioned that, then China's got a slightly different measure around emissions intensity. I just wonder if there's going to be a common baseline at the end of the year in Paris?
GREG HUNT:
Well it- I think you make a great point. It is hard to try to compare apples with apples. I think that's why we're increasingly talking about the 2005 baseline …
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Yeah.
GREG HUNT:
… because of the United States. And so the United States has 2005 and by 2020 they'll be minus 17 per cent. We're on track to be minus 13 per cent – well, that's our official target, but we will beat it. So we'll start to get very close to the United States, which is being held up for its achievement. And we'll go very, very close to matching that in the real world. And then…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But I guess I'm asking if you – I know they're complicated negotiations, do you think you'll actually have a common baseline? Or will it be like previous meetings, people will have different apples and oranges but say they're actually the same thing?
GREG HUNT:
Look, it's not going to be identical. I would prefer it to be an identical set of baselines, but just the United States and China have set completely different standards for themselves. The US is looking at a 2005 to 2025 period…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Yes.
GREG HUNT:
…with a hard number. China is looking at a 2030 goal of having reached what they call peak emissions.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Are both America and the US by the way, are they credible? When they talk about those numbers, do you think they'll achieve them?
GREG HUNT:
Look I think America is making increasing strides, and I think China will meet their target. I suspect they would have met that target in any event, that they were going to reach a period of peak emissions because the air quality issues are so significant …
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Yes.
GREG HUNT:
… in so many of their cities that they have to take steps just in terms of the old coal-fired power stations. America pledged I think it was minus 7 per cent for 2010 and delivered plus 8 per cent. By contrast we met and beat our first round of Kyoto targets from 2008 to 2012, and we are going to meet and beat our second round from 2012 to 2020. And when we make a pledge, we make it so as it's ambitious but credible.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Sure.
GREG HUNT:
That means we're doing something that we believe that a future Australian Government will undoubtedly …
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Be able to achieve.
GREG HUNT:
…be able to achieve if they go hard.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Greg Hunt is with me, he's the Minister for the Environment in Tony Abbott's Federal Government, speaking to us from Bonn in Germany. 1300 222 774 is the phone number. Interested to know what you make of what the Minister's had to say.
Greg Hunt, I know you might not be across all of the debate around same-sex marriage, however Eric Abetz was on AM earlier this morning and in the course of that interview said that if you're a frontbencher and you don't agree with the policy that the Government essentially took to the last election, which is to not support a same-sex marriage bill, you should resign if you speak out for it. Would you agree with that proposition?
GREG HUNT:
Look I won't comment on specific views of particular Ministers in either direction. My approach here is to- has been and will continue to be sort of utter respect for the fact that you can have exceptionally good people of exceptionally good faith …
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Yes.
GREG HUNT:
… with completely different views. And so my approach is to be respectful of all of the different views, I think the right place for these discussions is within the Party Room. And so I'll confine my comments to that environment.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Okay. Can I ask then if you support the timing? The cross-party group, which includes two Liberals, they're going to introduce it on 11 August when Parliament returns after the winter break. Do you think it needs to be dealt with pretty soon, both in the Parliament and in the Party Room?
GREG HUNT:
Look I suspect that the natural order of things is that anybody who does introduce this will inevitably raise it sooner or later within the Party Room. Now, you know, that's a matter- the backbench controls the Party Room along with the Prime Minister. So the way that works is people raise things …
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
What do you think will happen, do you reckon?
GREG HUNT:
I think that the best thing for me to do is not to speculate. It's like an ABC producers meeting. It's probably best for you not to speculate what will or won't happen in your production meetings but to go and do the show. And for me it's the same thing, that it's- I don't want to…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Do you support a free vote then?
GREG HUNT:
Look I again won't pre-empt that process.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
I'm happy to tell you what we're talking about in our production meeting tomorrow, we can do a trade. No?
GREG HUNT:
Look, historically – and I won't go beyond this – I've been very involved in the work on same-sex superannuation rights. This particular issue I'll reserve my position to the confines of the Party Room, and if the time comes I'll set out a very clear public position.
But at the moment it's an internal process. And I think it's very important for people to respect the views of others. As I say, exceptionally good people with exceptionally strong views can come to completely different conclusions. And my approach is to respect both the process but in particular the good faith of the people on both sides of the argument.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And just before you go, is it hot where you are? It's hot in London.
GREG HUNT:
Yeah, it's actually been very warm. So, I had to do a speech over Skype at 5.00am this morning and went for a run along the river here. And it was probably 24, 25 degrees along the river bank, just a glorious morning. I'm desperate to get home to my family, but as a final action in Bonn to have the result and then to have a run, early morning sun, warmth, it was just one of those moments you have to yourself.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Good for you. Greg Hunt, thanks for your time.
GREG HUNT:
Sorry, I'm a bit philosophical there.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
No, no, good for you. You may as well soak it up while you can. Thanks for your time.
GREG HUNT:
Take care mate, bye bye.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Greg Hunt is the Minister for the Environment, speaking to us from Bonn in Germany.
(ENDS)