E&OE….
Topics: Marriage equality, Australia’s 2030 emissions reduction target
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Greg Hunt joins us, he is the Environment Minister in Tony Abbott’s Federal Government, the Coalition Government. They set the targets, they made these decisions on marriage equality. Greg Hunt, welcome.
GREG HUNT:
And hello Raf, how are you? I’m actually sitting in the ABC studio but for some reason the Canberra and Melbourne ABC (inaudible) wasn’t working, so I’m calling you from a mobile phone, I apologise.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
No problem. Look, the gremlins are there. I do want to ask you about climate change – however, first, same-sex marriage. I think Josh Frydenberg is reported, your Cabinet colleague, or almost Cabinet colleague, reported as saying listen, Menzies, 60s, marriage laws – a conscience vote, why the change?
GREG HUNT:
Look, I think what we've done here is ensure that it's a free vote for all Australians. So we've gone to a particular level here of above and beyond a group of people in the Parliament making a decision to an almost unique situation where we have the Australian public – so every Australian has the chance to have a voice. And I…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But the Prime Minister was totally opposed to a popular vote in May?
GREG HUNT:
…well, I think what we've seen here is the process which has produced an outcome. And that is that we will have a voice for every Australian. Every Australian gets a vote and I would hope that now that we've set down that path that nobody would want to stand in the way of a vote and a voice for every Australian. And effectively, it's a free vote for the nation.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Let's get into your climate targets. The Australian Industry Group and the energy suppliers – they clearly think it's going to cost a lot more than you say to reach your targets, something like 50 to 100 times what you say it will cost. This is not criticism from the left, this is the Australian Industry Group and the energy suppliers – are they right?
GREG HUNT:
Well, respectfully, no. We've set out the $2.4 billion over 12 years is the Budget contribution that we're allocating. I remember when we came into Government and for the years beforehand people would say you could never achieve your 2020 targets with $2.5 billion.
We made that allocation, we've stuck to that allocation, we will beat our targets. But I know there are people who would want a lower target, I know there are people who would want a higher target. What we did is we worked out what we were able to achieve…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
I'm just wondering about the policy framework to get there?
GREG HUNT:
Well, the policy framework was set out in great detail and isn't hypothetical, it's actually operating.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
It looked very- Minister, forgive me, but it did look quite hypothetical. There's a graph in one of your Government papers that includes things like the National Energy Productivity Plan. When I look at that graph, it looks like just over half of your ambition comes from policy that is not detailed at all – improving the efficiency of vehicles – it sounds very vague.
GREG HUNT:
Well, in fact what we have now is Emissions Reduction Fund, which is not just operating, which has held what is a- which has already conducted what is arguably the most successful emissions auction anywhere in the world. 47 million tonnes of abatement or emissions reductions at $13.95. A lot of the…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
And that's a fraction of where we need to get to, and that's a fraction even on the graph, isn't it?
GREG HUNT:
…well, a lot of the critics, who are making the same points now had said this would be, you know, one tenth of the emissions reductions that we achieved. It would be four times the costs. And they were wrong then and they're wrong now.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But the people who produce some of the biggest emissions, the energy supplies, I mean, it's a fairly damming press release – we won't be able to buy our way to 26, 28 per cent. We will need a credible policy, it's time we developed comprehensive, broad base policy – that's very much saying they can't see your plan working?
GREG HUNT:
Well, with great respect, I think there's a fair bit of cherry-picking there. If we go to a variety of different industry groups, what we have is the refrigerants- the Air Conditioning and Refrigerant Association, congratulates the Federal Government. We have the Federation of Australian Auto Industries – again, welcoming the Government's commitment. We have…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But aren't the energy suppliers worth listening to because they produce the lion's share of emissions?
GREG HUNT:
…absolutely. We have the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry – Australia's position to global climate talks later this year is a reasonable one that balances the need for action to contain emissions, with the need to minimise damage to jobs and economic growth.
The Minerals Council – ambitious goal recognises that Australia's is a significant mineral power, has responsibility to contribute, the target is credible and appropriate. So many people are saying we've gone too high, many people are saying we've gone too low. We have struck what in my view is the right balance, that's minus 26 to minus 28 per cent…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
So who says you've got the right balance then, Greg Hunt?
GREG HUNT:
Let me put a point to you Raf – the people who are best placed to do the analyses are the Treasury of Australia, the Department of Foreign Affairs of Australia – which has the International…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Sure.
GREG HUNT:
…Climate Negotiation Unit…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
They have a role but the Academy of Science is also, I mean, we need to listen to…
GREG HUNT:
Let me finish. If you want to talk over me, you can do that, but I'd like to have a chance to finish the answer to you last question. And that then you have the Department of the Environment; and what we've done is identify 900 million tonnes of emissions reductions that we think Australia can credibly, reasonably and feasibly make up over the period from 2020 to 2030.
That takes us to a minus 26 to minus 28 per cent contribution, up from minus five per cent. That's a tremendously ambitious target, but it's credible and it's achievable and it's significant in global terms.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Who outside of Government backs your targets? Because the Academy of Science, the Climate Change Authority, don't. Is there a significant scientific institution who think you've struck the right target?
GREG HUNT:
Well we'll let people make their comments over the coming days but you've just…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Isn't that an important question to answer?
GREG HUNT:
And I've just cited the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But they're not scientists…
GREG HUNT:
Actually, these are the very bodies you were just citing a couple of minutes ago as critical and essential…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
No, no, I was citing the energy science…
GREG HUNT:
So in return I am citing the Minerals Council, I'm citing ARENA…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Let's stop citing bodies at each other for a moment Minister.
GREG HUNT:
Alright, good.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
…let me ask you if you think this is a valid question: is it valid for me – because a lot of people get confused with the detail, and look, it's a complex policy area. Isn't it fair as a voter to say; well, I don't get all the policy, but I'd like a significant scientific body to say yep, the Government is aiming for an ambitious target. I'm not aware of a big significant scientific institution who have said that. Is that a fair question or not?
GREG HUNT:
Well actually, we have science which goes directly into the Australian Government analysis, that's what the Department of the Environment does. It has a very significant scientific unit. We have the Department of Industry, which is able to draw on the advice of the CSIRO. The Department of the Environment draws on the Bureau of Meteorology.
So what we've actually done here is make the most significant reduction in Australia's emissions commitments in Australian history. We have done that because we have just had the most significant policy outcome in terms of a 47 million tonne reduction in Australia's emissions. It's important to explain to your listeners that that's four times the total emissions reduction under the carbon tax from just the first option. So we had a massive electricity tax which didn’t reduce emissions.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
That's still in-house scientific advice though. Well, let me perhaps ask one final question. I will get to people's calls and I know you need to go. 1300 222 774 is the phone number. We're the highest emitters per capita now and we will be in 2030 – isn't that a problem?
GREG HUNT:
Well, in fact, no other country in the developing world is reducing emissions by as much per capita. So we do start from a higher base…
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Yeah.
GREG HUNT:
…absolutely. And no other country is reducing emissions by as much per capita as Australia. We are reducing our per head of population emissions by 50 per cent. If there's a country that's doing better, I'd invite you to let me know.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
But aren't- but don't we want to be leaders a little bit and say well, you know, we used to be the worst per head, now we're a bit better? Isn't that a worthy ambition?
GREG HUNT:
Well, we actually are the leader. In all of the world, amongst the major economies and developed economies, we are the country that is reducing emissions by the most per capita. And if you want to see us leading, well, that's what we're doing.
We're also right at the top of the tree in terms of reducing the intensity, but we are reducing our emissions by the most per capita, and that's something Australians should be proud of. We can only take the country and the world as we find it today and we're making changes, which are greater in per capita terms than any other comparable country.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Okay, Greg Hunt, I know you need to get busy somewhere else. Sorry about the technical hitches. Thanks for joining us.
GREG HUNT:
Oh, that's alright. Thanks Raf, take care.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN:
Greg Hunt, Environment Minister, Member for Flinders, of course.
(ENDS)