E&OE….
Topics: Clean Energy Finance Corporation, Labor’s plan to bring back a carbon tax, Shenhua Watermark mine approval
MONIQUE WRIGHT:
Well, it's been a heated week of environmental issues. It started with the environment under fire for pulling the plug on household solar and wind farms, but by Wednesday the Opposition had its own headache, defending reports of a new carbon tax.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
Joining us to debate those topics are Environment Minister Greg Hunt and Shadow Minister Mark Butler. Good morning to you gentlemen.
GREG HUNT:
Good morning guys.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
Terrific to have you with us. Now our viewers have begged us, in this forum, please, can we keep the political point scoring to a minimum, is what they have said, and just talk about the facts here. But we've got a lot to get through so we'll kick off straight away.
Minster, this week of course, you ordered the Clean Energy Finance council to stop investing in wind farms and small scale household solar. So viewer Melanie Brown from Goulburn has asked on our Facebook page, what does the Government, in particular the Prime Minister, have against renewable energy? How do you respond to that?
GREG HUNT:
Well in fact we've just recently settled the Renewable Energy Target. That will lead to a doubling of large scale renewable energy between now and 2020. We have 2.3 million houses that have had solar or solar hot water under the Renewable Energy Target. That's what funds and supports those two activities at a national level.
This Clean Energy Finance Corporation that was created by Labor was always intended to focus on emerging technologies, things such as large scale solar, and in the last 48 hours I think they've responded well and supported large scale solar and supported storage. It was never intended to be investing in existing wind farms using borrowed tax payers' money.
MONIQUE WRIGHT:
Mark Butler, how do you respond?
MARK BUTLER:
Well, the purpose of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation was to facilitate a mature lending market. We know that banks are very conservative institutions and they take a while to get comfortable with lending significant amounts of money to new industries, including the renewable energy industry. So there is still very important work for this corporation to do.
There's an expert board that should be making these decisions, not politicians like Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott. And this is a serious dent to the confidence of this industry. Greg, to his credit, has worked very hard over the last few months to restore confidence after Tony Abbott's attacks on the industry last year, through restoring the Renewable Energy Target. And I think Joe Hockey's latest attack through the Clean Energy Finance Corporation is very unfortunate.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
Mark, we mentioned in the opener of course, that some of the spotlight this week has shone on Labor, with a leaked Labor discussion paper revealing talks about a new plan for a price on carbon.
Now Darren McIndoe would like to know, how can you push for a carbon tax in a new wrapping whilst refusing to phase out coal? That’s his question.
MARK BUTLER:
Well, we're not pushing for a carbon tax in new wrapping, to use Darren's language. And emissions trading scheme is a very different beast altogether. Now I want to stress that this is a discussion paper that found its way onto the front of the Daily Telegraph and some other Murdoch tabloids. But we are being very clear with the Australian people.
We are confident that the best way to reduce Australia's carbon pollution is through an emissions trading scheme that has a hard cap on carbon pollution that reduces over time and then lets business work out the cheapest and most effective way to operate. This is the model you see in so many countries to which we've usually compared ourselves in North America and Europe, but increasingly also in our region, in countries like South Korea, China and many others.
MONIQUE WRIGHT:
Alright. Greg, do you disagree?
GREG HUNT:
Absolutely. What we've seen this week is that if the ALP comes back, if Bill Shorten becomes Prime Minister, there'll be a carbon tax. They'll call it something else but it's a carbon tax. And for the viewers, what does it mean?
It means higher electricity prices, higher gas prices, higher cost of living and if you're a farmer it means that you'll inevitably pay more to refrigerate your milk, you'll pay more for your fertilisers, so where ever you are higher electricity, higher gas, and that's their policy, and it's been confirmed with what really was an extraordinary leak this week.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
It is a little unfair to say that an emissions trading scheme equates to a carbon tax though isn't it Minister?
GREG HUNT:
No, not at all. These things are almost identical. There's one difference, and that is one has a fixed price, one has a floating price. An emissions trading scheme is just another way of saying a carbon tax, and that is another way of saying higher electricity and gas prices. We abolished it. They want to bring it back. I understand that it is a policy difference, it's just better that they should be honest about it and tell people how much their cost of living and their electricity bills are going to go up.
MONIQUE WRIGHT:
Okay. Question for both of you from Glenn Lowe, regardless of ideologies and unnamed sponsors, what is the healthiest and best option for the long term survival of humans on this planet? Mark, let's go to you first?
MARK BUTLER:
Well, that is a very big question, particularly for a Saturday morning I have to say.
MONIQUE WRIGHT:
Yes.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
It's a good question.
MARK BUTLER:
But look, I think the particular focus, the focus of Greg and myself in particular, given that we have a very important global conference in Paris in December. One where there is serious momentum building, lead by the Americans and the Chinese in particular, is to deal with the challenge of climate change.
We all need to make sure that we do everything possible to ensure that global warming does not exceed two degrees Celsius beyond pre-industrial levels, because we know that if does there will be very serious impacts, including on a vulnerable continent like Australia. So I think that is our priority at the moment.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
So we're agreed with that are we Minister, across party lines? That that is the goal?
GREG HUNT:
Two big things. Cleaner air and cleaner water. And cleaner air is about cleaning up the quality of air in our big cities around the world and reducing emissions. Emissions reduction is fundamental and we actually share that and Mark and I have worked to that end. I think we shouldn't always be cynical about cooperation in Parliament. And in cleaner water is both about the drinking water in much of the developing world but also the qualities and the care and maintenance of the oceans.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
Indeed. Now we can't let you go Minister without just quickly addressing the coal mine, the Shenhua coal mine, because so many viewers have written to us about it. Rosemary Nankivell, a farmer from the area in question has written why do you consistently say that the Shenhua mine is not on the Liverpool Plains, that it will not affect the agriculture industry?
GREG HUNT:
Well, the advice has been categorical, in terms of not just one or two or three or four or even five scientific reports, but six scientific reports. We of course, whether it was the previous Government or ourselves, do not create these projects, they come from the state system.
We have one very small role at a Federal level, which is stage 15 of 17, and the scientific advice on that, the legal advice and the departmental advice was always absolutely clear that this will not have an impact on the water in the area. It's one in 1000 parts but of course it's a State project, created by State Labor, and the scientific advice could not have been clearer or more categorical.
ANDREW O’KEEFE:
Although the independent panel did say that maybe the measures in place were not adequate for accurately determining the effect that was going to be had on the water. And you did promise Alan Jones the other day that you'd take a further look at that.
GREG HUNT:
And that's why I've adopted 100 per cent of the Independent Expert Scientific Committee's recommendations and why I've also guaranteed that when there is any further response in relation to the recommendations we'll return it to the independent panel, so scientists are taking the lead.
MONIQUE WRIGHT:
Alright, we are out of time. Greg Hunt and Mark Butler, good to have you with us this morning, thank you.
GREG HUNT:
Thanks very much guys.
MARK BUTLER:
Cheers. Thank you.
(ENDS)